Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
Vlad's Laws of Internet Debate #9: Whatever I say is always right, because I said it.
ealgeone, please add this to the unified list of Vlad's Rules, so we have a complete record.
Ping to #521
It’s true because it’s true. Whether I say it or not the truth is still the truth. You won’t refute it. You can’t refute. Nothing will change that.
But they didn’t. It’s right there in the Catechism of the Catholic Church right after paragraph 2051
Well they certainly did drop the commandment...The left column lists the scriptures that contain the commandments...The column on the right lists and numbers the commandments your religion plucked out of those scriptures on the left and anything to do with idols is eliminated...
And here is the cataclysmic, catechismic lie, over here:
2141 The veneration of sacred images is based on the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word of God. It is not contrary to the first commandment.
But it certainly is...Based upon the mystery of the Incarnation??? What kind of phony phrasing is that???
vlad "But they didn’t. It’s right there in the Catechism of the Catholic Church right after paragraph 2051. Here, I’ll include a link to it and this will demonstrably prove you wrong - which was inevitable of course: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/command.htm
The Traditional Catechetical Formula for the commandment(s) in question reads as follows:
1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
It kinda skips over a whole bunch of important commandment language.
In fairness this is included in the Catechism under the section of The Ten Commandments.
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. Ex 20:2-1
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/command.htm
CatholicBible101.com lists the Ten Commandments as:(I only post the ones in question)
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm.
In fairness, the website does publish the entire passage from Exodus.
Beginningcatholic.com lists the Catholic Ten Commandments as:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Regarding the division of the texts the Catholic Encyclopedia online notes the following:
The system of numeration found in Catholic Bibles, based on the Hebrew text, was made by St. Augustine (fifth century) in his book of "Questions of Exodus" ("Quæstionum in Heptateuchum libri VII", Bk. II, Question lxxi), and was adopted by the Council of Trent.
Another division has been adopted by the English and Helvetian Protestant churches on the authority of Philo Judæus, Josephus, Origen, and others, whereby two Commandments are made to cover the matter of worship, and thus the numbering of the rest is advanced one higher; and the Tenth embraces both the Ninth and Tenth of the Catholic division. It seems, however, as logical to separate at the end as to group at the beginning, for while one single object is aimed at under worship, two specifically different sins are forbidden under covetousness ; if adultery and theft belong to two distinct species of moral wrong, the same must be said of the desire to commit these evils.
Here again, we have ECFs in disagreement over a fairly basic issue.
http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3184
However, the question becomes...what are Roman Catholics taught?
Maybe you can figure out Rule #2 now.
An old man playing dress up at his age.
As if that gives him any credibility just cause he thinks he looks the part.
I wonder if he really thinks God is pleased with him, or more pleased with him, for dressing as he thinks a rabbi should.
However, it was not that way when I was taught the Ten Commandments in Catechism class.
I never could figure out why there were two separate commandments about coveting when one would have covered it.
The weak excuse they gave was that one was about marriage and the other one was about things.
We have a new addition!
Vlad's Rules of Internet Debate #11: "Whatever I say is true can never change. I Vlad have spoken!"
I'm guessing half that and half to scam people out of money and sell stuff by looking like a Jew.
Inherited lies??? Hey, there are over 50 prophecies of the birth, life and death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in the Old Testament, and every single one of those had been fulfilled...Why is it that you guys reject Jesus as the Messiah???
Men like darkness rather than light, lest their deeds be reproved.
All you did was draw attention to yours.
Let's see....Rules #2, #6 and #11 are in play on this one....not in any order though.
“It kinda skips over a whole bunch of important commandment language.”
No, actually it doesn’t. After all “1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me” means that you can only worship God and God alone. Thus, if someone only worships God and God alone than there is no violation. God commanded that images be made for the Temple. They simply were not worshiped as God. They were in places of prominence, made out of the best materials available, but were religious art used as reminders of unseen realities. They were not worshiped. Thus, if you’re reducing 17 verses to ten statements that are easily memorized then the Traditional Catechetical Formula makes perfect sense.
“CatholicBible101.com lists the Ten Commandments as:(I only post the ones in question)”
No. They list the Traditional Catechetical Formula of the Ten Commandments.
“In fairness, the website does publish the entire passage from Exodus.”
So you’re wasting everyone’s time then by citing the previous thing. Way to go.
“Here again, we have ECFs in disagreement over a fairly basic issue.”
It is basic - and yet we see Protestants disagree over basic all the time. On FR I have seen Protestants disagree over whether or not anything “happens” in baptism. You can’t get much more basic than that. Which Church is the real Church - the one established by Jesus of some latter-day novelty invented by a German monk in 1520 or some American in the late 20th century? Yeah, pretty basic, but Protestants get it wrong all the time. How many books belong in the Bible? Basic, but Protestants get it wrong all the time. You can look in some Protestant Bibles and see that they can’t even get things right as “basic” as whether or not John 8:1-12 is actually scripture!
“However, the question becomes...what are Roman Catholics taught?”
Look in the Catechism.
You can’t make an argument.
“You can’t make an argument.
Vlad’s Rules for Internet Debate
Rule #13
Always use ad hominem attacks
Perfect...yes...that one is excellent!
No. They list the Traditional Catechetical Formula of the Ten Commandments.
The Ten Commandments as handed down by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai were the beginning of the nation of Israel, when they were leaving Egypt as slaves, for freedom in the promised land. They were considered to be the Law of God for his chosen people. There are, however, some major differences in interpretation. There is a difference in what the Catholic Church uses as the Ten Commandments and what the protestant churches use. In the Catholic Church they are as follows:http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm
Rule #6
>>In fairness, the website does publish the entire passage from Exodus.”<<
So you’re wasting everyone’s time then by citing the previous thing. Way to go.
No...I was being fair and not trying to mis-represent what the website said. Because some arrogant Roman Catholic would immediately post the rest and claim I was trying to misrepresent the website.
Rule #2
>> “Here again, we have ECFs in disagreement over a fairly basic issue.”<<
It is basic - and yet we see Protestants disagree over basic all the time.
As we see Roman Catholics as well. It illustrates why the ECFs are writers of opinion...not Scripture. It is why Christianity rejects Roman Catholicism's Tradition as it often contradicts Scripture and is based upon contradictory opinions of the ECFs.
>>“However, the question becomes...what are Roman Catholics taught?”<<
Look in the Catechism.
I guess the two websites I posted aren't to be trusted then by Roman Catholics??
That wasn't the question. I'm curious as to what Roman Catholics are taught about the Ten Commandments in their Catechism classes..or whatever classes ya'll go to.
Are they taught the full verses...or just the Formula?
That one may get changed to #1...yes...let’s do that...swap 1 and 13.
“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.”
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