Posted on 11/24/2017 6:23:49 PM PST by marshmallow
Professor Clara Ferranti now target of the Left
A Catholic professor in Italy is facing strong backlash for doing the unthinkable in modern society: briefly interrupting a lesson to ask her Catholic students to join her in praying a "Hail Mary."
Professor of Linguistics Clara Ferranti at the University of Macerata took the occasion of the national Rosary rally organized by the Italian Marian Association on October 13 (the 100th anniversary of the Miracle of Fatima) to encourage students to pray. The whole deed lasted less than 30 seconds, but the controversy that arose may have consequences for many months to come.
Member of Parliament Giovanni Paglia from the leftist party Sinistra Italiana ("Italian Left") submitted a complaint to the Ministry of Education. "We couldn't believe that in a public institution ... people were forced to pray by the imposition of a professor," the complaint read. "I questioned the government if it isn't the case to bring an action against the professor, as this is an evident assault on state secularism."
But Ferranti told Church Militant she has also received much support in light of the backlash.
"[H]ow the hundreds of messages of solidarity claim a newfound courage to witness the Faith," she commented. "I heard this especially (but not only) from young students, who are usually more afraid to disclose their creed because of the ridicule they suffer. ... Many of my students have thanked me, assuring me they are many."
(Excerpt) Read more at churchmilitant.com ...
The founding fathers found a need to include a deity in the Declaration of Independence.
I didn’t guess wrong about your partner.
Odin, Zeus, Horus....? Did you have a particular one in mind? With so many thousands it's hard to know if you aren't specific.
Who do you think Catholics are asking Mary to pray to when we recite, "pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"?
What do you care?
They’re all mythical to you.
I haven’t seen too many atheists post on the Religion Forum.
Thank you so much for your explanation, and letting me know what you think and believe. I appreciate the conversation.
Where I disagree is where you are equate *prayer* and *worship*. They are not the same. Also, Catholics do not bow toward a statue of Mary or other statues. The genuflection is reserved as a gesture in the direction toward the Real Presence in the tabernacle. And the only bow is toward the Eucharist before receiving. Perhaps you have not been to a Catholic Mass?
The text of the Hail Mary is as follows:
Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
The first part comes from the Magnificat in Luke’s gospel and the second half is asking the Mother of God to intercede. Again, there is NO *worship*.
It's not just to me, and yes, all.
They aren't segregated on FR. Everything dumps to the main page and I comment on what's of interest.
Was your daddy a draft-dodger?
Why is an atheist interested in the Hail Mary?
“Do you ask your friends to pray for you? Intercessory prayer is asking your friends known to be in heaven (i.e., saints) to pray for you.”
Intercessions are made by living believers.
There is no example in the Bible of anyone who is dead making intercession for anyone else. Nor is there any example of anyone praying to the dead for the living.
Isaiah 8:19-20
And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
“I didnt guess wrong about your partner.”
Wrong again. You, in your own words, guessed that I would be against the pledge of allegiance. I’m not. And that’s a straw man argument.
Why is a professor in a secular classroom interested in the Hail Mary? The prayer itself is of zero interest to me if it stays where it belongs.
Thank you for your reply. You certainly know your bible.
Perhaps you are not familiar with Luke 16:19-31?
Also, what about in Revelation, when John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). Here it is obvious that the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
I think that is a pretty solid biblical foundation, don’t you think?
But please, do not equate intercessory Catholic prayer with necromancy. They are certainly NOT the same.
“Who do you think Catholics are asking Mary to pray to when we recite, ‘pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen’?”
You’re praying to someone other than God, who you think is the Mary of the Bible but is really an evil impostor who welcomes you violating God’s laws. The real Mary, if God allowed her to become aware of people praying to her, would be deeply grieved over this terrible sin done in her name.
Where are the bows you are talking about?
“You shall know them by their fruits.” So says Matthew 7:15-20. When I think upon those who have extolled the virtues of offering prayers to Mary, I call to mind many charitable, blessed, and righteous souls. Mother Theresa, Padre Pio, Bernadette, etc., etc. Even Martin Luther would agree (https://churchpop.com/2017/03/07/5-surprising-quotes-from-martin-luther-on-the-blessed-virgin-mary/) Are you are saying that in their humble and earnest piety, they were being misled by infernal powers to utter damnation? That by their devotion to God and others they were really doing the devil’s work? Are you suggesting that really what they are doing is conjuring evil spirits?
I don’t think those who regularly recite the Hail Mary are the people you need to worry about or feel threatened by.
Here, in reply to an article about a teacher persecuted for inviting students to pray, you decided to offer up a sarcastic remark to give vent to your anti-Catholic bigotry. Unlearner, you are better than that. And if you want to convert people to you way of thinking, a little charity and humility would server you far better.
I will be sure to offer a Rosary for your special intentions. There is nothing wrong with the way you pray. There is certainly nothing wrong in praying only to Christ. But nourishing a hatred for what you ignorantly suppose others to believe is self-destructive and unhelpful.
Despite our disagreement, I wish to thank you for the excellent conversation.
All my best to you and your family.
“Here it is obvious that the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth... I think that is a pretty solid biblical foundation, dont you think?”
1. The identity of the 24 elders is not disclosed.
2. Nothing in this passage or anywhere else in the Bible indicate that prayers of people on earth are directed toward these elders or anyone else other than God.
3. The symbology of the 24 elders offering the prayers of saints to God like incense is not explained. There is not even an explanation of which saints’ prayers are being offered.
4. Nothing about intercession by the elders or anyone else in Heaven, other than the LIVING Christ, is mentioned in this passage or anywhere else in scripture.
It is precisely because such knowledge has been hidden and was never revealed as part of the general revelation God provided, that it is immoral to add to His closed canon of scripture with speculations that intrude into things not seen but are vainly puffed up by the fleshly mind.
This means, for example, a person may individually come to believe certain things about end-times prophecy from the book of Revelation. He may feel God has given him wisdom and discernment to prepare for times that are to come, as revealed in this book. So, suppose that he decided to store up food for his family. This could be a prudent action. However, it would be wrong to demand that congregants do the same and turn this into some required ritual mandated by the church.
I do not believe there is anything innately wrong with making a nativity scene to put in one’s yard for Christmas. Doing so could be a way of proclaiming Christ to the neighborhood. But it would be wrong to bow to such images, pray to them, or make sacrifices to them. And it certainly would be wrong to demand that all congregants in a local church put up a nativity scene in their yards. Doing so is adding to the word of God. A Christian is free to put up a nativity or not. But he is not free to enslave other Christians to make them conform to his personal feelings.
The practices regarding the use of images in the church violates the clear commands of the Bible. If in no other way, it clearly teaches that anything that is not explicitly commanded by God and is a stumbling block to other Christians must be avoided. It specifically refers to food offered to idols in numerous places.
And we have an example of an image which God actually commanded to be made—the brass serpent—which later had to be destroyed because it had been used in an idolatrous way. This image was ordained by God. It was used to perform a miracle. Christ described it as a symbol of His own death. And yet it had to be destroyed.
The modern incorporation of icons into worship and prayer in the Catholic church was never something God commanded in the general revelation of scripture. And even if it had ever once been directed by God in some individual circumstance, such as a morality play for example, then this would still not warrant the establishment of a universal practice forced upon congregants. The fact of the matter is that humans, as fallen and carnal creatures, have a tendency toward idolatry. It is something to flee from rather than to trifle with. And even if it were possible (which I do not concede) for a Christian to use such images as part of prayer and worship without committing an act of idolatry, it is indisputably POSSIBLE for any object to become an idol. The brass serpent PROVES this beyond all doubt. Therefore, such images MUST be removed from their role in prayer and worship within any true church that is obedient to Christ.
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