Please separate the individual lives from dogma and Catholic theology. If you are unable to make this simple distinction there can be no dialogue.
Yes, before the Bible, there was the Catholic Church. This Bible you and your Billy Grahams, and Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns keep referring did not fall from the skies and self assemble itself to be picked apart by at the wicked heresy of Luther that dissolved into a 30,00 different sects
Early in the history of the Church, the belief in the Eucharist which is central only to Catholic teaching was propounded by St. Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John and St Irenaeus. Apparently some of the folks here keep quoting scripture that are relied upon by the snake handlers in Appalachia.
The seven great letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, written around the year AD 106 while on his way to Rome to be thrown to the beasts, take for granted the existence of local hierarchical churches, ruled by bishops who are assisted by priests and deacons. Ignatius, a living disciple of John the Apostle, writes that “Jesus Christ...is the will of the Father, just as the bishops, who have been appointed throughout the world, are the will of Jesus Christ. Let us be careful, then, if we would be submissive to God, not to oppose the bishop.”
St. Irenaeus is best known for refuting the Gnostic heresies. Yet he never could have imagined the Protestant heresies that would follow centuries later. But here’s what he wrote barely a century after the death of Christ.
“[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.”
Source: St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 180 A.D.:
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html
So it’s no surprise if the leading Protestant and Episcopalian theologians and scholars after a life-time of study, teaching and contemplation have converted to Catholicism. Sadly, the rubes still remaining in the empty pews of these Protestant denominations have been left behind to the mercy of semi-illerate corner street churches, not infrequently staffed by ordained married lesbian and homosexual pastors
“Yes, before the Bible, there was the Catholic Church.
Not recorded in Scripture.
“that dissolved into a 30,00 different sects
In contrast to every Roman believing a self-determined theology
“Early in the history of the Church, the belief in the Eucharist
Not during life of Apostles.
Are you going to apply the same standard to yourself and stop making blanket claims about Protestantism based on the lifestyles of a few crackpots?
Yes, before the Bible, there was the Catholic Church. This Bible you and your Billy Grahams, and Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns keep referring did not fall from the skies and self assemble itself to be picked apart by at the wicked heresy of Luther that dissolved into a 30,00 different sects
The Catholic church did NOT come before Scripture.
Yes, before the Bible, there was the Catholic Church. This Bible you and your Billy Grahams, and Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns keep referring did not fall from the skies and self assemble itself to be picked apart by at the wicked heresy of Luther that dissolved into a 30,00 different sects
Pffttttt. as if one centralized authority is any advantage to Catholics. You all have Francis and most FRoman Catholics don't accept him as a legitimate pope. What advantage is their again in your system?
Writings of the *church fathers* are opinion pieces of men who lived and died a long time ago and do not carry the weight of God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
“So it’s no surprise if the leading Protestant and Episcopalian theologians and scholars after a life-time of study, teaching and contemplation have converted to Catholicism.
And yet the theologians and scholars that TAUGHT these few REJECT ROMANISM.
The hundreds of thousands of equally qualified leading Protestant and Episcopalian theologians and scholars after a life-time of study, teaching and contemplation have REJECTED ROMANISM to Catholicism.
But that's not like the Catholic churches that are staffed with child molesting, homosexual priests and those men in the Catholic hierarchy who are attending the cocaine-fueled sodomite orgies in the Vatican. Right?
“Sadly, the rubes still remaining in the empty pews of these Protestant denominations have been left behind to the mercy of semi-illerate corner street churches, not infrequently staffed by ordained married lesbian and homosexual pastors”
1. Rubes = those who are now saints and have eternal life. Do you??
1.5 why do you demean those Christ died for?? Why so critical?
2. The pews are bursting to overflowing, unlike most Roman churches.
“not infrequently staffed by ordained married lesbian and homosexual pastors”
Almost never. Prove your claim.
“This Bible you and your Billy Grahams, and Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns keep referring did not fall from the skies and self assemble itself
Largely recognized by actual believers during the lives of Apostles.
2/3 decided before then
Catholic as in universal, yes....Roman Catholic...no.
That you continue to repeat the oft debunked claim of 30,000 different sects discredits your argument.
That you continue to lump Billy Graham in with Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn discredits your argument.
btw....what are your theological credentials?
Again, you keep on proclaiming your dogma as if it were self-evident. It’s not.
You have not demonstrated the authority upon which this dogma rests, nor given us any reason to trust that authority.
The closest that I can figure is that you’ve said that the ‘Church’ is the authority that the dogma rests on, but you have still not demonstrated WHY.
Acts 15:22-35
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.