Posted on 10/17/2017 8:10:47 AM PDT by Salvation
"God is telling us, 'I have willed that one should need another and that all should be my ministers in distributing the graces and gifts they have received from Me.'"
St. Catherine of Siena (1347 - 1380)
Here's a look at how it might work if we love each other (go ahead and look, you'll like this):
Great article. Thanks for posting.
I fully expect the FrancisWrath to come down upon Msgr. Pope.
I suspect that Frankie doesn’t even know that Brother Charles exists. Which is too bad. Frankie could stand to learn much from him.
The saints in heaven aren't "fellow Christians"??
But is post 9 true?
The quotes are from Roman Catholic sources.
The saints in heaven aren't "fellow Christians"??
In the context of the conversation as to who do you ask to pray for you fellow Christians are those here on earth.
This last part of the Hail Mary prayer has three unbiblical parts to it. First, Mary is not and never was “holy.” Mary was a human being who was born, as all humans are, with a sin nature and who recognized that she needed a Savior.
The second unbiblical part of the Hail Mary is addressing Mary as the “Mother of God.” Mary was the human mother of the human Jesus Christ, who was indeed God incarnate. But she was not the mother of God, neither is she the ”queen of heaven,” another title given to her by the Catholic Church which has no basis in Scripture. God doesn’t have a mother, nor does He have a queen. He is an eternal, infinite Being, uncreated and unborn, self-sufficient and self-sustaining.
The third unbiblical statement in the Hail Mary is the plea for her to “pray for us sinners.” Here we see the unbiblical practice of praying to Mary to intercede with God for us.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Hail-Mary.html
Not per the Roman Catholic sources I noted.
But your inaccurate restatement , actually a counter-statement ("This completely wipes out...") completely wipes out the Body of Christ, which is the Communion of Saints, believers, who need each other:
The statement applies to those believers on earth.
And it completely wipes out the very lifeblood of the Body of Christ, which is our love and prayers for one another in Christ: James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
As long as the righteous person is praying to God.
Romans 14:8
"If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord."
Therefore, there is no indication whatsoever that a person who has passed on to heaven, ceases to be a member of the Body of Christ. Frankly, this idea strikes me as bizarre. It's unimaginable to me that one becomes less spiritually connected to the Lord and to the Body of Christ when one is with the Lord in heaven.
So you can understand this as a paradoxical truth: we come to share in Christ's divinity, who humbled Himself to share in our humanity. That's what St. Peter says: we become "partakers in the divine nature".
We "mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ."
We "put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness."
So then, even when I am conversing with you, ealgeone, the two of us are in Christ. What difference does living or dying make? We are already dead to this world:
Colossians 3:3
"For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God."
Christ is our life. He is Mary's life. He is my life. He is the life of every saint, in this world and in the world tro come.
This is the way--- the only way --- we can love one another and pray for each other: in our unbroken bond as members of One Body.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death."
We do have a plethora of admonitions to pray to God...to make our requests known to Him...to rely upon Him.
When Jesus taught the disciples to pray Matthew recorded this.
7“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8“So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9“Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10Your name kingdom come. Your name will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. 11‘Give us this day our daily bread. 12‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’] 14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Compare this to the Hail Mary where the emphasis is on Mary.
When combined as part of the Rosary we see the meaningless repetition Matthew recorded Jesus warning against.
The overwhelming emphasis in the Hail Mary and Rosary is on Mary....not God.
Your source, https://www.gotquestions.org/Hail-Mary.html , is not “Roman Catholic”.
Ergo it’s worthless.
It is non-denominational. If you read the sections about Roman Catholicism you will note many are written by former Roman Catholics who are now Christians.
But I note you cannot refute what the article says about the Hail Mary prayer TO Mary.
Exactly. Your source is anti-Catholic. And I have found ex-Catholiics to be some of the most vicious attackers of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
The Hail Mary is not Biblically based. It cannot be defended using Scripture.
Mary was never mentioned in the original article. Your first response introduced Her on this thread in your continuous attacks on Christ’s One Church.
And it’s not the first time you’ve done this.
And you still cannot refute that the Hail Mary is not a Biblically based prayer.
Sure it is in Scripture and it's defended here below:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love. Mary is perfect created goodness, filled to the limit of her finite being with grace or charity.
Blessed art thou among women
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Ruth, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Since Eve was created immaculate (without original sin), Mary must have been conceived immaculate. And, although Eve fell into sin by her own free will, Mary must have corresponded to God's grace and remained sinless. She could not otherwise be greater than Eve. Thus, as the Fathers of the Church unanimously assert, Mary is the New Eve who restores womanhood to God's original intention and cooperates with the New Adam, her Son, for the Redemption of the world.
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Kyrios is the Greek word used by the Jews in the Septuagint Bible (Greek translation) for Yhwh, the Divine Name of God. In her greeting of Mary, Elizabeth is saying: "How is it that the mother of my God should come to me." Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Jesus is a single Person, a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. To be mother of the Person Jesus is to be mother of a Person who is God. Mary's title protects this truth against errors which emphasize or deny, either the divinity or humanity of the Lord.
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it. He does. We turn to Mary to ask her to intercede with her Son in our daily spiritual and material needs, but especially at the hour of our death. At that moment our salvation hangs in the balance as the devil makes his final foray to deter us from the path to God (Rev. 2:10). It is not surprising, therefore, that both the Hail Mary and the Our Father conclude with an appeal to be delivered from the evil one.
Is this source Catholic?
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm
And if so, are these your beliefs?
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