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To: G Larry
Perhaps you should review the actual words in the Hail Mary.

They are direct Bible quotes preceding the request that she pray to Christ on our behalf.

I have read the Hail Mary.

The “Hail Mary,” Ave Maria in Latin, is a Roman Catholic prayer to the Virgin Mary that consists of salutations and a plea for her intercession. Also, the term "Hail Mary pass" was used by the press to describe a pass by Dallas Cowboys quarterback Roger Staubach in a 1975 divisional playoff game and has come to be synonymous in football with a long pass that has little chance of success. The text of the Hail Mary prayer incorporates two Bible passages: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee" (Luke 1:28) and “Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Luke 1:42). The first passage is the angel Gabriel’s greeting to Mary when he came to inform her that she had been chosen to bear the Messiah. The second is her cousin Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary when Mary came to visit her cousin, who was also pregnant at the time with John the Baptist.

The third part of the Hail Mary prayer is not from the Bible and is, in fact, in direct contradiction to Scriptural truth: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

This last part of the Hail Mary prayer has three unbiblical parts to it. First, Mary is not and never was “holy.” Mary was a human being who was born, as all humans are, with a sin nature and who recognized that she needed a Savior. In fact, the very passage used in the Hail Mary, known as Mary’s Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55), contains the declaration “my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,” a clear indication that she understood her need for a Savior from sin. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).

The second unbiblical part of the Hail Mary is addressing Mary as the “Mother of God.” Mary was the human mother of the human Jesus Christ, who was indeed God incarnate. But she was not the mother of God, neither is she the ”queen of heaven,” another title given to her by the Catholic Church which has no basis in Scripture. God doesn’t have a mother, nor does He have a queen. He is an eternal, infinite Being, uncreated and unborn, self-sufficient and self-sustaining.

The third unbiblical statement in the Hail Mary is the plea for her to “pray for us sinners.” Here we see the unbiblical practice of praying to Mary to intercede with God for us. First, we do not need another intercessor with God. Christ is the only intercessor we need. Through Jesus and Him alone, we have direct access to the Father. Christ alone mediates and intercedes between God and man. “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). Prayer to anyone other than God alone is anti-biblical. Praying to Mary or petitioning her to pray for us is against the Scriptures. Prayer is an act of worship. When we pray to God, we are admitting that we need His help. Directing our prayers to anyone other than God is robbing God of the glory that is His alone, something God hates and will not tolerate (Isaiah 42:8).

While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshipped, revered, venerated, or prayed to.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Hail-Mary.html

20 posted on 10/14/2017 5:37:25 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

I think this thread was intended to show something admirable that the Poles did.

Do you feel compelled to turn every Religion thread into a debate about Mary and the Catholic faith?


24 posted on 10/14/2017 5:41:32 PM PDT by deks
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To: ealgeone
  1. John the Baptist is called "holy." He that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist. The apostles are called "holy."
  2. Miriam/Mary is the mother of Emmanuel which the scripture specifically interprets as "God with us." Mary is the mother of "God with us." God is "God with us."
  3. The Apostle Paul intercedes with God, as did Moses, for Israel to be saved. The Apostle Paul further intercedes with God for the saints in Achaia (one of the Roman provinces in Greece) that they do no evil. Paul asks the church of the Thessalonians to pray for Paul, Sylvanus, and Timotheus. The scripture records Simon (Samaria) was rebuked by the Apostle Peter for his grave sins and told to repent and pray to God for forgiveness. He asked the Apostle to pray to the LORD for him so that none of the deadly things of which the Apostle warned him would come to pass.

44 posted on 10/14/2017 6:53:47 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: ealgeone

The angel’s declaration to Mary as “full of grace” defines her holiness.
Christ was not born in a stained vessel.
Joseph certainly did not defile this vessel.

Luke 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace,[e] the Lord is with you!”
And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

Luke 35 And the angel said to her,
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born[h] will be called holy,
the Son of God.

Christ’s divine nature always was.
Christ’s human nature began at the moment of conception when Mary accepted God’s will.
Luke 38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”
The Person of Christ is both God and Man.
Mary gave birth to that Person of Christ, who is both God and Man, and thus she is the Mother of God.
To suggest otherwise is anti-biblical and denies the the dual and simultaneous nature of Christ.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church phrases it, “Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception. For this reason, the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: “Mother of God, not that the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born from her, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh.”

And further, we have Elizabeth’s spontaneous reaction and declaration regarding “the mother of my Lord”:
Luke 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Catholics have never suggested that Mary is Divine or to be worshipped.
Gabriel’s declaration to Mary as being “full of grace” is definitive regarding her sinless nature, as previously noted, Christ would not be born of a stained vessel.

There is no basis for dismissing veneration or requests that she pray to her Son on our behalf, anymore than I may request a friend to pray to Christ for me, in addition to my own direct prayer. To suggest she is constrained in the afterlife would also deny the appearance of Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration or Samuel’s appearance to Saul.

Finally, you might note that the forces of Pope Pius V, aided by the very prayers you dismiss, were in fact victorious in the Battle of Lepanto.

Not sure why you’re comfortable with gotquestions.org as your pope?

As for your assertion regarding the beginning of the Catholic Church, its right here in:
Matt. 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter,[d] and on this rock[e] I will build my church, and the powers of death[f] shall not prevail against it.[g] 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,[h] and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”


69 posted on 10/15/2017 3:31:15 PM PDT by G Larry (There is no great virtue in bargaining with the Devil)
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