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Locked on 09/19/2017 3:06:12 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness and bickering |
Posted on 09/19/2017 10:47:17 AM PDT by EliRoom8
NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?
At the Time of the End, the wise shall understand. Dan 12:10
Understanding the expression "No man knows the day or hour" is not possible by simply taking the English translation literally, because in the book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation, we are given EXACT descriptions of timing, relative to KEY events - such as the shutting down of the altar sacrifices in Jerusalem at the MID-POINT of the 70th week. Dan 9:27
Jesus was asked, "When shall these things be?" Matt 24:3
His answer ties us in to a very specific event (The Abomination of Desolation) which can be measured on our calendars: "When you therefore shall see the Abomination Of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)..." Matt 24:15.
It is now clear that "no man knows the day or hour" does NOT mean "no man knows the day or hour" as we read it from a modern-day English perspective.
>From his book "Signs In the Heavens" by Avi Ben Mordechai, he devotes a chapter to explaining what "no man knows the day or hour" truly means from a rabbinical Hebraic perspective. It is a figure of speech.
. . . (lengthy article)
Once proclaimed, the Feast of Trumpets (RoshHaShanah) commenced. Until that public announcement by the Nassi, everyone had to wait before they could begin the observance of the festival. No one could begin the festival beforehand! Thus, we can more clearly see the analogy Jesus made with His words: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" was in regards to this important festival of Rosh HaShanah.
(Excerpt) Read more at hebroots.org ...
Oh, for the love of Pete. It doesn’t matter!
“There —SEEMS TO BE— some signs that are lining up that —COULD INDICATE— That the Rapture —MIGHT OCCUR— on Sept 23...And here is why it —MIGHT— (cite evidences that —MAY INDICATE— that the rapture —MIGHT HAPPEN—)... But, IF the rapture does not happen at that time, then we will carry on as usual, and look forward to God rapturing us before we die sometime in the future if we’re fortunate...”
I would say, rather, that the correct response to September 23 is something along the lines of, "There is no evidence of any Planet X or whatever about to hit the earth on September 23. If there were, we would have seen it by now. If Jesus is coming again on September 23, it will be in spite of your delusional drivel, not because of it."
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I don’t want to stir anything up, but it might be helpful to note what a recent development the rapture doctrine is. For your consideration, here is the impetus of the rapture doctrine, from an incident that occurred in 1830:
‘On one particular evening, the power of the Holy Spirit was said to have rested on a Miss Margaret Macdonald while she was ill at home. She was dangerously sick and thought she was dying. In spite of this (or perhaps because she is supposed to have come under the “power” of the spirit) for several successive hours she experienced manifestations of “mingled prophecy and vision.”She found her mind in an altered state and began to experience considerable visionary activity.
The message she received during this prophetic vision convinced her that Christ was going to appear in two stages at His Second Advent, and not a single occasion as most all people formerly believed. The spirit emanation revealed that Christ would first come in glory to those who look for Him and again later in a final stage when every eye would see Him. This visionary experience of Miss Macdonald represented the prime source of the modern Rapture doctrine as the historical evidence compiled by Mr. MacPherson reveals.’
http://askelm.com/essentials/ess025.htm
the planet or comet or whatever hitting is not any part of the evidences I was speaking about- I know some throw that in too- but as you say- there isn’t any evidence and it shouldn’t be included- there are however some pretty curious evidences and timelines and signs that culminate on Sept 23- and that’s as far as I’ll go with it all- that it’s curious- and —possible— that it —could happen— based on these culminating signs- (none of which include a planet slamming into earth)
Some prophecy is in signs, this isn’t. Sounds literal to me.
Jer 31: 38-40 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah. 40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the Lord. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished.”
that is just one explanation- there are others that come from actual scriptures that seem to indicate a rapture that have nothing to do with that woman’s dream- (ie that Christians will be spared the ‘wrath of God’ in the end times- as well as other scriptures and sentiments in the bible-
The point is, there is no—zero—evidence of a Rapture doctrine prior to Miss Macdonald’s visions. If it were a Biblical doctrine it would have been discovered in Scripture prior to 1830. But up until that date, the Rapture doctrine is unheard of.
If you disagree, a link would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Agree with you completely. It sounds literal...until this:
‘The city will never again be uprooted or demolished.”’
Nothing on this earth is everlasting. Peter reveals that this world will be destroyed by intense heat. The only way the city Jeremiah foresaw could be eternal is if it’s the New Jerusalem spoken of in Revelation.
2 Peter 3:10
[ A New Heaven and Earth ] But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Nonetheless, the sole origin of the September 23 Armaged-not is one crackpot's claim that the fictional planet Nibiru will collide with the earth this Saturday. Any Christians who are claiming the date has merit, are capitalizing on the latest New Agey kook hysteria.
Except that the word sacrifice is not in those passages in Daniel. The word is tamid, an adverb that was made into a definite noun. The book of Daniel is the only place the tamid is made into a stand alone noun, so the interpretors 'know better' and add it to the translations, upon which are based the theories, which go downhill from there.
Jesus was asked, "When shall these things be?" Matt 24:3
His answer ties us in to a very specific event (The Abomination of Desolation) which can be measured on our calendars: "When you therefore shall see the Abomination Of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)..." Matt 24:15.
Daniel was a prophet in chapters 2, 4, and 5, to the kings and kingdom of Babylon. Here is the writing that was written: Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin. Whoever reads, let him understand.
The cornerstone of the end times prophecy House of Merchandize was laid down in 1970 with the publication of the Late Great Planet Earth.
John 2
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Here is the writing that was written: Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin. Whoever reads, let him understand.
Like what happened to the political Establishment in 2016 at the election of President Trump. *Trump*. It's already done for, now only a matter of formalities.
Well said. If Jesus christ himself doesn’t know how arrogant is it for any man to claim to know such things.
I see your point, however, why isn’t Peter’s prophecy figurative? I see this one verse used to “disprove” old testament prophecy as figurative, but no one ever questions if Peter was figurative and not literal..
Ezekiel 37 says the new temple will be in Jerusalem forever. I guess God will work out how Peter’s vision of the future aligns with the mountains of prophecy about Jerusalem
Ezekiel 37:26-28
26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”
Peter’s prophetic description could be figurative, but it cannot be false. Iow, he may be using intense heat, fire and burning figuratively. However, the result must be the same: the present heavens and earth utterly destroyed. Otherwise you invalidate the prophesy—inspired by the Holy Spirit—completely.
Ezekiel’s prophetic words are so beautiful. Did you notice how closely they track with John’s Revelation? Undoubtedly the language, being so amazingly similar, speaks of the same vision: New Jerusalem.
“Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin” literally means “numbered, numbered, weighed, divided”.
Just be clear, it does not mean “Whoever reads, let him understand.”
You probably know that, but for they way you’ve written it, it isn’t clear you’re not saying that.
The phrase is a Hebrew idiom, well understood in the culture of Yeshua and the apostles.
It is a reference to Yom Teruah aka Rosh Hashanah.
Idioms do not translate at all; or at least very poorly. So many cannot figure this out.
But the context is the return of Christ :
Mark 13:28-37New American Standard Bible (NASB)
28 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
29 Even so, you too, when you see these things happening recognize that He is near, right at the door.
30 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
32 But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
33 “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
34 It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
35 Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
36 in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.
37 What I say to you I say to all, Be on the alert!’”
Amen as well. That has how I have looked at eschatology for a long time now. Even if the world doesn’t end our own lives will and that could happen anytime due to all sorts of factors. Those who arose on the morning of 9 11 and headed to a flight or the WTC or the Pentagon had no idea what was about to happen.
Well, what can you do.. :-/
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