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To: vladimir998
"It comes from His grace, but He gives that to use through things like His works (e.g. the Sacraments). "

Not in Scripture. There is no sacramental system that imputes any grace.

"The Sacraments are HIS works.

Not in Scripture. There is no sacramental system that imputes any grace.

"Likewise, He gives us grace using physical things and all of that grace comes from His death on the cross.

Not in Scripture. There is no sacramental system that imputes any grace.

"I think, in a sense, you’re cheapening the power and grace of God when you say He only imputes His righteousness.

"only" is a limited view of the "incredible gift" God gives when He imputes/credits the Righteousness of Christ to a believer.

"Therefore IT WAS also CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification." (Romans 4)

"No, through the power of God’s grace we are actually transformed (Romans 12:2).

A separate reality and blessing.

And indeed, the believer who entrusts himself to Him alone is made the "righteousness of Christ."

31 posted on 09/16/2017 2:57:08 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Excuse the obvious question: “Scripture” - insofar as that which composes the books of “the Bible” - did not exist for the first 400 years of the Church. And since it was the Catholic Church who authored the book we know as the Bible, then it is for the Catholic Church to discern its meaning in context ... which is why we say the Catholic Church is a “teaching Church” ... So, what did Christians have as a spiritual guide in the nearly four centuries before the Bible existed? They had the TRADITION of the Church.

If there are no sacraments, then what was the point of Christ’s instructions to the Apostles in regard to forgiving sins and holding them bound (Confession)?

If there exist no sacraments in the Church, then just what is Baptism?

If there are no sacraments, then just what is the descent of the Holly Ghost upon the apostles? (Confirmation)

If there are no sacraments, then just what is the Eucharist as was consubstantiated by Christ at the “Last supper” on the eve of His Passion? “This is my Body ...” “This is my Blood ...”

If there are no sacraments, then how is it that Christ sanctified marriage, and declared its indissolubility?

If there is no priesthood, and all can believe whatever they personally wish to believe, then why bother having apostles (bishops) at all? Why not simply have Christ miraculously produce a Bible, ready to go?

BTW - if every belief is valid, then, logically, none are valid. Logic dictates that two diametrically opposing views cannot both be right.


39 posted on 09/16/2017 3:42:57 PM PDT by JME_FAN
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

“Not in Scripture. There is no sacramental system that imputes any grace.”

Imputes? No. Gives? Yes. Example: Acts 22:16: “Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.”

Only grace can wash away sins. And notice it is WASH AWAY and not pretend they aren’t there or gee, we’ll impute they’re gone. No, they’re washed away - through grace through a sacrament.

http://www.therealpresence.org/essentials/sacraments/acc33.htm

I might be able to take your comments more seriously if you were attacking what Catholics actually believe, but your comment about “There is no sacramental system that imputes any grace” shows you don’t even know what the Catholic Church teaches let alone what the Bible says.


43 posted on 09/16/2017 4:09:27 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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