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Can Pastors Have a Beer?
Christian Post ^ | 08/07/2017 | Shane Idleman

Posted on 08/07/2017 10:33:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

A few years ago, I attended a conference where pastors were encouraged to meet at a pub after the general sessions. A few of these pastors could exercise their liberty, but why publicly? I wondered how many people at the conference stumbled because of it.

The demands of life often tempt us to seek gratification in alcohol and other things. We must be on high alert. The enemy uses "opportune times" to draw us away from God. (cf. Luke 4:13.) The line is so thin that it is often hard to determine when we cross over.

The person who consumes alcohol walks a very fine line between freedom and sin, responsibility and carelessness, liberty and abuse — over-indulgence can even disqualify a person from leadership (cf. 1 Timothy 3). This discussion is not about a glass of wine or beer now and then, it's about abusing liberty. Damage done to families and individuals through alcohol use demands a closer look.

Pastor John MacArthur states what many of us feel but seldom discuss, "It is puerile and irresponsible for any pastor to encourage the recreational use of intoxicants — especially in church-sponsored activities. The ravages of alcoholism and drug abuse in our culture are too well known, and no symbol of sin's bondage is more seductive or more oppressive than booze."

I couldn't agree more. The trend of young Christian leaders consuming alcohol on a regular basis is alarming. Many will look back and regret the damage that was done to lives, churches, and their own testimony.

Pastor Darrin Patrick, in his book Church Planter, writes, "I am shocked at the number of them [pastors] who are either addicted or headed toward addiction to alcohol."

David Wilkerson adds, "Alcohol is now the modern golden calf, and millions of people, young and old, male and female, have been seduced by it."

Many counseling appointments are because of alcohol and drug abuse. Add to that the amount of domestic violence cases and the number of abused children because of alcohol, and we would be remiss to ignore its dangers.

We often flaunt liberty and laugh in the face of God's grace by posting our favorite beer brands and wines on Facebook, all under the guise of "exercising liberty." While Romans 14 discusses personal freedoms, it also has strong warnings "not to do anything that will cause others to fall" (vs. 21).

Consider the following:

* Jesus was filled with the Spirit ... holiness flowed from every area of His life. This cannot be said of those who consume alcohol regularly. What is the fruit of today's preoccupation with alcohol? Conversations often turn away from God, if they were there to begin with. We begin to compromise our time and interests; we'd rather head to Vegas than a prayer meeting. Jesus said that "wisdom is justified by her children" (cf. Luke 7:35). Carnal Christians consume alcohol regularly. The harmful fruit that results from a lifestyle focused on alcohol is proof enough.

* The Bible never encourages crossing the line. A preoccupation with alcohol is just one indicator of alcoholism; a preoccupation with drinking at events or social gatherings is another. Some even bring out their private collection of hard liquor after having a few drinks. This is not liberty; it's addiction.

* We assume that the alcohol content today is the same as in Jesus' day. In His day, a little water was often placed into the wine and thus decreased the alcohol content (cf. 1 Timothy 5:23) ... much like an O'douls today. "Strong drink" were drinks with higher alcohol content that led to drunkenness. Craft beer, for example, often has two times more alcohol than mass-produced beer. Those having two pints of craft beer may have the equivalent of five regular beers.

* "Jesus ate and drank with sinners." "But there is no suggestion in Scripture that Jesus purposely assumed the look and lifestyle of a publican in order to gain acceptance..." (John MacArthur). We should fellowship without engaging in the practices of a secular lifestyle. The world will know that we are Christians by our love and by our convictions, not by how well we imitate the world around us. We seldom hear non-Christians say, "I'm turned off by Christians because they seldom compromise." But we do hear, "Christians who say one thing and do another really turn me off." "Be not among winebibbers ..." (Proverbs 23:20).

* Drinking often is now called liberty instead of addiction. Many Christians center everything around alcohol — fellowship, events, birthdays, bible studies, etc. When alcohol is the center of attention, it becomes an idol and an addiction. This is why many will be offended by this article.

* In Jesus' day, society was much more isolated. We cannot calculate how many people are affected by today's social media. A person with 500 "friends" may be encouraging dozens to stumble. It is the selfless motivation of love that keeps us from causing others to stumble (cf. Romans 14).

1 Peter 2:16 reminds us that many use liberty to hide sin: "A cloak for vice," and Galatians 5:13 says we should not "use our freedom to indulge the flesh." If these points raise concerns, I encourage honest repentance. Its often not "if" alcohol consumption causes damage but "when." Why would we willingly walk into the enemy's camp?​

God does not want us to be enslaved to anything. It is important that we take an account of our lives and see if this area has a hold on us. Be honest. How much do you drink? Is it really one drink now and then, or is it throughout the week? Is it a large goblet that holds ¾ of a bottle of wine and do you fill it twice?

Do you make excuses in order to exceed moderation and plan activities around alcohol? Do others comment on your drinking? Do you often argue and try to justify your position? Paul said that even though we have freedom, not everything is good for us. We should not become a slave to anything (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:12). It's time to break free from this flawed liberty.​

- Shane Idleman is the founder and lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California, just North of Los Angeles


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: beer; havetwo; liquor; ofcourse; pastors; yes
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To: Gamecock

I agree


81 posted on 08/07/2017 2:29:15 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: Cecily
Speaking of moderation, it’s funny how Christian churches or organizations that harp on drinking any alcohol usually never mention the deadly sin of gluttony. You can be 50 or 100 or however many pounds overweight, but DON’T TOUCH ALCOHOL!

Had to reply

Last time I went to my home church (more than 50 years ago) there was a visiting minister who was to talk about moderation, when his message was abstinence from alcohol. He looked like he was eating immoderately at a lot of dinners every day.

Also was at a midwest city hotel where a Baptist convention was held. Bartender said they always did a great business in room service.

82 posted on 08/07/2017 2:31:35 PM PDT by TroutStalker ("Protect the hypersensitive. Ban everything.")
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To: Gamecock

Gotta agree with you there, Gamecock. If Jesus lived and ate and drank as a normal Jew of his day, he was a regular drinker of alcohol, and so were all of His apostles.

The likelihood of them being T-totalers is as great as the likelihood they were vegans.

Drunkenness us morally rebuked. Wine per se is never prohibited, and often freely recommended. Wisdom: “Come, drink wine and milk.”

I suppose some will say that means grape juice and reconstituted powdered tofu milk. But I doubt it.


83 posted on 08/07/2017 2:47:39 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Come into my cell. Make yourself at home." - Lancelot (Walker Percy))
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To: Fai Mao

I once read that, due to the perennial problem of drinking water safety / sanitation wherever large numbers of people congregate (cities), virtually all civilizations were characterized by their use of either boiled water (e.g. tea) or alcoholic drinks.

It’s a health and safety thing.


84 posted on 08/07/2017 2:52:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Come into my cell. Make yourself at home." - Lancelot (Walker Percy))
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To: DFG

LOL


85 posted on 08/07/2017 3:14:59 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If you remember the 60's, YOU WEREN'T THERE!)
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To: Fantasywriter

When we attended a Lutheran church in Las Vegas for over ten years, once a quarter, all hymns were sung according to polka music—yes, even the Beer Barrel polka! Never so many smiles, laughing, and hugging in church!


86 posted on 08/07/2017 3:19:43 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If you remember the 60's, YOU WEREN'T THERE!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Considerable research supports this. It also explains why alcohol tolerance is low in populations, such as Native Americans in the United States, that did not develop large, fixed settlements.


87 posted on 08/07/2017 3:28:36 PM PDT by Tax-chick (You can't read all day if you don't start early in the morning.)
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To: SgtHooper

What a story! Sounds like a lively place—surprised they don’t get more mentions. A happy, joyful service is 100 preferable to cold and austere.


88 posted on 08/07/2017 3:51:53 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: SeekAndFind

The better question is “should he drink a beer?”


89 posted on 08/07/2017 4:26:06 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Fantasywriter
I have yet to see the evangelical church that served wine with communion, though. They may exist, but in my experience it’s been grape juice.

That happened in a church I went to once.

Apparently the grape juice had been in the fridge a little too long.

All the deaconesses set up communion, no one the wiser, until it was time to drink.

On first sip, there was a kind of collective pause, everyone looked at their cup, looked at their neighbor, and started giggling.

Never happened again but I'll bet they were really careful about using fresh grape juice after that.

I'll bet all those little old ladies were just mortified.

90 posted on 08/07/2017 7:19:02 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: metmom

What a hilarious story! Thanks for sharing it. I felt like I was right there as it happened. Priceless.


91 posted on 08/07/2017 7:35:45 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Bob434
The Gospel of John is in Greek. In 2.10 the word kalos (good, beautiful) is used twice of the wine which had been water.
92 posted on 08/07/2017 7:36:29 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: SeekAndFind
Having studied under a professor educated in Koinonia Greek, Dr. Jim shared with us that the New Testament in the original Greek uses three different Greek words covering our one word, "wine."

One word was what is closest to our understanding of a beverage made from newly trodden grapes "oinos" (something like a grape juice); another word is closest to juice gone sour "oxos" (our vinegar); and a third word (Heb. "yayin," for a fermented liquid mostly used in medicinal purposes but also could put one in a stupor, what we would refer to today as drunk.

Yes, Jesus' first miracle at the wedding in Cana, was turning water, set aside to wash the feet of one's guests, as the fermented beverage being served, was depleted, into the word "oinos" but that was the "new wine (unfermented)."

On the cross as He was dying, Jesus was offered the fermented liquid "yayin" to dull His pain but He knew His Father intended Him to suffer for the sins of all mankind, so He refused.

Lastly, He did accept a sponge soaked with the sour juice "oxos," as a preembalment just prior to His death, with which He would soon be washed.

93 posted on 08/07/2017 7:41:50 PM PDT by zerosix ( Native Sunflower)
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To: SeekAndFind
Having studied under a professor educated in Koinonia Greek, Dr. Jim shared with us that the New Testament in the original Greek uses three different Greek words covering our one word, "wine."

One word was what is closest to our understanding of a beverage made from newly trodden grapes "oinos" (something like a grape juice); another word is closest to juice gone sour "oxos" (our vinegar); and a third word (Heb. "yayin," for a fermented liquid mostly used in medicinal purposes but also could put one in a stupor, what we would refer to today as drunk.

Yes, Jesus' first miracle at the wedding in Cana, was turning water, set aside to wash the feet of one's guests, as the fermented beverage being served, was depleted, into the word "oinos" but that was the "new wine (unfermented)."

On the cross as He was dying, Jesus was offered the fermented liquid "yayin" to dull His pain but He knew His Father intended Him to suffer for the sins of all mankind, so He refused.

Lastly, He did accept a sponge soaked with the sour juice "oxos," as a preembalment just prior to His death, with which He would soon be washed.

94 posted on 08/07/2017 8:18:01 PM PDT by zerosix ( Native Sunflower)
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To: SeekAndFind
The question is can PASTORS have a beer. Sure they can, but SHOULD they?

1Co 10:23  All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
  1Co 10:24  Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being. 

Paul teaches that just because he CAN have a beer it's sometimes wise to NOT have a beer.

Think about a pastors role. Is he going to break out the beer everytime he gets together with the congregants? What does that say to the kids? That we NEED beer or other drink to be social?

How about if the pastor KNOWS he has alcoholics in the congregation...is he going to potentially cause them to stumble by drinking in front of them?

And what if a pastor DOESN'T know that there's an alcoholic in the congregation and drinks in front of him or her?

When it comes to pastors and pastoral responsibility there's a much higher bar that God sets and expects to be kept.

Jas 3:1  My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 

It's all about being sensitive to the spiritual maturity of those around us.

95 posted on 08/07/2017 8:36:19 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: SeekAndFind

Head on collisions probably averaged a combined 4 mph, if walkers; 20 if runners. Falling off a running horse can be fatal.

Milk had to converted to butter and cheese to increase milk’s safe time window of consumption.

Grape juice had to be fermented to extend its life.

God gives up common sense. We are given Jesus Christ as the perfect example. There is no record of him being even a little bit tipsy. He drank wine no doubt, but not to a mind altering point.


96 posted on 08/09/2017 6:33:10 AM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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