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To: Fantasywriter

Reverence is a form of respect.

The “vast” difference is between the honor given to saints and angels, and the adoration given to God.

However I do encourage you -— all of us -— to keep thinking about the distinctions and gradations between these various forms of respect. The lack of distinction and gradation is what causes people to conflate veneration with idolatry.

I really think part of the problem here is that we live in a society almost totally lacking in an “honor tradition” -— except, as I noted, in the military.


225 posted on 08/04/2017 3:25:25 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Ah, according to Paul the ‘saints’ (chosen) were elected ‘before the foundation’ of this flesh age... God does NOT need flesh man to do what He already did. Mary was one of the ‘elect’ set aside ‘before the foundation’ of this flesh age.

Christ said ‘call NO man father... Mary would say do what He commands... carry on with the mystical traditions of man made theology... Not only do catholics call their man in Rome ‘father’ but they tag on ‘holy’ father when there is absolutely nothing holy about this turkey.


227 posted on 08/04/2017 3:37:27 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The words, ‘reverence,’ and, ‘respect,’ are far from synonymous. Respect is a much broader term, free from specific religious connotations. For example, there was a non-Christian professor of probability at MIT a few years ago. I sat in on his lectures. I has profound respect for him on a purely mathematics level—but zero reverence. Zero.

As to the King James Bible. That is a real can of worms. I took two years of Greek with one of the most gifted Greek professors to draw breath. He illustrated to us that the KJB was excellent for its time, but that older and more accurate Greek mss have since been discovered. Plus, words do change in meaning over time. That’s simply a fact of linguistics.

The New American Standard Bible is translated from the oldest and best mss available. Its unique claim to fame is that it strives to be the most literal translation of the original languages. Here is part of the blurb from BibleGateway:

[New American Standard Bible]

More accurate than ever:

Recent research on the oldest and best Greek manuscripts of the New Testament has been reviewed, and some passages have been updated for even greater fidelity to the original manuscripts.

Parallel passages have been compared and reviewed.

Verbs that have a wide range of meaning have been retranslated in some passages to better account for their use in the context.

And still the NASB:

The NASB update is not a change-for-the-sake-of-change translation. The original NASB stands the test of time, and change has been kept to a minimum in recognition of the standard that has been set by the New American Standard Bible.

The NASB update continues the NASB’s tradition of literal translation of the original Greek and Hebrew without compromise. Changes in the text have been kept within the strict parameters set forth by the Lockman Foundation’s Fourfold Aim.

The translators and consultants who have contributed to the NASB update are conservative Bible scholars who have doctorates in Biblical languages, theology, or other advanced degrees. They represent a variety of denominational backgrounds.

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-American-Standard-Bible-NASB/


228 posted on 08/04/2017 3:47:07 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Fantasywriter
I really think part of the problem here is that we live in a society almost totally lacking in an “honor tradition” -— except, as I noted, in the military.

I can tell you EXACTLY the problem here...many FRoman Catholics bitterly defend the Catholic Mary against anyone who would dare reject the many dogmas Catholicism has created concerning the Virgin Mary. Should a non-Catholic attempt to explain WHY he/she disagrees with Catholics on this or any other doctrines or dogmas, he/she is met with disdain and/or hostility for having the nerve to post on a thread about Mary at all. What makes this strange is the one who usually posts such threads is a Catholic already well aware the thread will provoke disagreement. I can't help but see deliberate instigation.

Do you think there can ever be an Open RF thread about Mary - or other Catholic-specific doctrines - where the topic can be discussed even when opposing views are bandied back and forth - and it remain respectful and NOT degrade to animosity? I think it would be exceptional if such can be achieved. Sadly, too often it is the Catholics who start the ball rolling in the wrong direction on such threads when offense is taken and personal feelings get involved. Just look at this thread. A tougher hide is needed we know on Open RF threads where personal beliefs can be challenged, it would be wonderful if we could all simply respond respectfully no matter what and not turn this forum into a slugfest or flame war. I will try hard to keep this in mind.

274 posted on 08/05/2017 10:48:30 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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