Posted on 07/17/2017 8:08:32 AM PDT by ebb tide
“Francis is more interested in leftwing politics than in Catholic theology”, George Neumayr, contributing editor of The American Spectator, states talking to Tom Woods on July 14th on tomwoods.com. Woods describes Francis as a result of John Paul II who - as he puts it - appointed "absolutely terrible people" as bishops: "Catholics have suffered under Bergoglios for decades now”.
Neumayr agrees that a lot of the liberal bishops were appointed by John Paul II and Benedict XVI. He sees Francis as the “culmination of a century” of liberalism and modernism in the Church.
For him it is "highly unlikely" that Francis, who in his theology is “more a Protestant than a Catholic” will convert to Catholicism. Instead, the realistic scenario is that Francis will produce division and chaos, "Catholics will have to decide whether they guard the faith over papolatry.”
And: “The Cardinals have to declare that Francis is a bad pope who must be resisted.”
No, I just thought that a Protestant describing the Bible as “the book [Rome] assembled,” which seems a bit disdainful, was very odd.
Just got back from vacation. Good to see the lead up to the 500 year anniversary of the 95 Theses is proceeding as I expected.
The it's not faith alone, is it?
I am so sick of how some Catholics just continually assume that we don’t preach good works, even if salvation comes through faith. Why is that?
Perhaps it is because we cannot get a straight answer on whether faith must be accompanied by good works.
Of course we do not earn grace through good works. This is not what the Catholic Church teaches. The good works that must accompany faith no more earns us our salvation than faith alone earns us our salvation. Salvation is by grace alone.
It was first read *in the original language and culture* by the earliest Christians: Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius. They learned from the Apostles how to read it. Not from people thousands of years later.
I make sure I read it the same way they read it. I put more faith in them than you, some heretical German monk, or even myself.
No, Paul does not say this. You say it.
I would beg to differ:
Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:5)The immoral or impure or greedy persons has no inheritance in the kingdom of God. That sure sounds like the lose of heaven to me. In addition:
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 6:9-10)In all these passages Paul is writing to believing Christians, not pagans. He is warning them that sin, not just the lack of faith, will prevent them from inheriting the kingdom of God.Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal. 5:20-21)
Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry. Because of these the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. (Col. 3:5-6)
Not once. Not ever.
Well, gentlemen, which is it?
Then what good is the death of Jesus?
You're saying we have to live a perfect life with no sin based on your interpretation. That's an impossibility.
No other individual has ever been held to that standard.
Look at Abraham, Moses, Rahab, Samson, David, Samuel.....all sinned and all are recorded in Hebrews 11 as people of great faith.
How very deceitful. Do you own or wear Brown Scalpulae? ... True to Catholic form, you will likely now tell us that is not an ‘indulgence’.
Sin is sin and all sin results in death (Roman 6:23).
23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NASB
If you’re depending on visions to verify truth, then you are already way seriously deceived.
You said it brother.
Then it seems you must censor the uncensored devotion of revered "saints" in your church who explicitly or implicitly teach all graces come thru Mary, that no one comes to God except thru Mary, and the necessity of going to Christ thru Mary if one really wants to be blessed, that "No one achieves salvation except through you...No one receives grace except through you...no one obtains mercy except through you." "Thou are all-powerful in saving sinners.." "if you go to God through Mary, your work will become Mary's work, and consequently will be most noble and most worthy of God." “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus.." "that one alone is solicitous for us in Heaven. ".. who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our welfare." "when she acts, it is also He who acts;...and through her alone does He dispense His favours and His gifts" "the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived..." "He is a debtor to you." "through Whom the Holy Trinity is sanctified..." "the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived...
"The union between the Immaculata and the Holy Spirit is so inexpressible, yet so perfect, that the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse. This is why she is the mediatrix of all graces given by the Holy Spirit. And since every grace is a gift of God the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit, it follows that there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose." — Manteau-Bonamy, Immaculate Conception, 91; F.X. Durrwell, The Holy Spirit of God (Cincinnati: Servant Books, 2006), 183-185.
No one achieves salvation except through you...No one receives grace except through you...no one obtains mercy except through you."
"Thou are all-powerful in saving sinners.." "the greatest consolation that I receive from God... the light of my soul when it is enveloped in darkness...the hope of my salvation" ( St. Germanus (638-730), first bishop of Cyzicus, patriarch of Constantinople, various works; http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/prayers/SaintsPrayers2.htm)
"In "Glories of Mary" by Liguori, whose writings were declared free from anything meriting censure by Pope Gregory XVI (1839) in the bull of his canonization, he teaches,
Beware, chosen soul, of thinking that it is more perfect to direct your work and intention straight to Jesus or straight to God. Without Mary, your work and your intention will be of little value. But if you go to God through Mary, your work will become Mary's work, and consequently will be most noble and most worthy of God. - THE SECRET OF MARY, St. Louis de Montfort; http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/SECRET.HTM
According to Eadmer (A.D. 1060–1124), an English monk and student of Anselm, “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus...[who] does not at once, answer anyone who invokes him, but only does so after just judgment. But if the name of his mother Mary is invoked, her merits intercede so that he is answered even if the merits of him who invoked her do not deserve it.” Through her “the elements are renewed, the netherworld is healed, the demons are trodden underfoot, men are saved and angels are restored.” — Andrew Taylor, “Three medieval manuscripts and their readers,” University of Pennsylvania press; page 173
And where can we find an advocate who is more earnest in the affair of our salvation, or who loves us more than Mary? "We acknowledge," says Saint Augustine of her, "that one alone is solicitous for us in Heaven. "...in order that our Lord may pardon us our sins, help us with His grace, free us from dangers, and relieve us in our wants, says, addressing in the words of an ancient writer: 'We know that we have as it were but one solicitous in Heaven for us, and thou art this one, so greatly does thy solicitude for us exceed that of all the Saints.'" - Liguori, Saint Alfonso Maria De'. (2013). pp. 181-2. The Glories of Mary. London: Forgotten Books. http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Glories_of_Mary_1000665057/181" that God loved Mary more than all the other Saints together... "We acknowledge," says Saint Augustine of her, "that one alone is solicitous for us in Heaven." Mary could not be more closely united to God without becoming God. Saint Alphonsus de Liguori, The Glories of Mary, in Little Book of Saints by Christine Barrely; http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/marys-book20.htm the tenderness that Thou showest us in Heaven, in obtaining for us by Thy prayers so many mercies from God, obliges us to acknowledge that in Heaven we have but one advocate, and that is Thyself; and that Thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our welfare. - Alphonsus de Liguori, The Immaculate Heart of Mary is the Refuge of Sinners; Mary can be declared by the Church to be not only the “helpmate” of that Second Divine Person — Co-Redemptrix in Salvation, Mediatrix in grace — but actually “like unto Him.”...when she acts, it is also He who acts; and that if her intervention be not accepted, neither is His.... Her position as "the first of all creatures, the most acceptable child of God, the nearest and dearest to him," (Cardinal Newman); As Mother of God, says Lepicier, Mary contracts a certain affinity with the Father; · The pre-eminent resemblance which she bears to the Father, which has fitted her to pour out into the world the everlasting light which issues from that loving Father.... He has no children but by her, and communicates no graces but by her...and through her alone does He dispense His favours and His gifts. A Marian Synthesis; http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/msynthesis.htm Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter...She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity...the holy City of God, the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived...her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands...because it is always humble and conformed to his will, the dispenser of all he possesses...What immeasurable greatness...Mary has authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven...God gave her the power and the mission of assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels who fell away through pride....all the angels in heaven unceasingly call out to her...They greet her countless times each day with the angelic greeting, "Hail, Mary", while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests...The whole world is filled with her glory,... Moreover, we should repeat after the Holy Spirit, "All the glory of the king's daughter is within".... Whatever desires the patriarchs may have cherished, whatever entreaties the prophets and saints of the Old Law may have had for 4,000 years to obtain that treasure, it was Mary alone who merited it and found grace before God by the power of her prayers and the perfection of her virtues." — St. Louis de Montfort, in Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, miscl. http://www.legionofmarytidewater.com/docs/true.doc He who fills heaven and earth, and is the Lord of all, was pleased to be in need of you...you have made Him a debtor who gives being to all creatures. We are all debtors to God, but He is a debtor to you." (St. Methodius (d. 847), "The Greatest Marian Prayers")
In Maccabees 2: 12:46, Jewish men who had fallen away (embraced pagan gods, etc.) fought to defend the Temple against a non-Jewish army (Greeks), and in doing so they died as martyrs defending the faith.
That was not a promise of forgiveness (nor an indulgence to escape purgatory), and perhaps the pope did not promise such, but this was an offering in the hope that these apparent idolators, who were executed by God for a capital, mortal crime, would find pardon and see the resurrection of the just.
"Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were slain." "they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain." (2 Maccabees 12:40,42)
for "he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead." (2 Maccabees 12:43-44)
However, while the Holy Spirit records approx. 200 prayers in Scripture in exampling and teaching how to pray and exhorting the same, there are zero prayers to Heaven anywhere in Scripture addressed to anyone else but God, except by pagans.
And praying for the dead was a latter development among some Jews, flowing from paganism.
...it should come as no surprise that we do find instances, particularly in the domain of popular belief, in which non-Christians prayed for the suffering dead in the other world...
These practices developed around the beginning of the Christian era. They were a phenomenon of the times, particularly noticeable in Egypt, the great meeting ground for peoples and religions. Traveling in Egypt around 50 s.c., Diodorus of Sicily was struck by the funerary customs: "As soon as the casket containing the corpse is placed on the bark, the survivors call upon the infernal gods and beseech them to admit the soul to the place received for pious men. The crowd adds its own cheers, together with pleas that the deceased be allowed to enjoy eternal life in Hades, in the society of the good.
The passage cited earlier from the Second Book of Maccabees, which was composed by an Alexandrian Jew during the half-century preceding Diodorus's journey, should no doubt be seen against this background... It then becomes clear that at the time of Judas Maccabeus--around 170 s.c., a surprisingly innovative period—prayer for the dead was not practiced, but that a century later it was practiced by certain Jews. (The Birth of Purgatory By Jacques Le Goff. pp. 45,46 , transcribed using Free Online OCR - convert scanned PDF and images to Word, JPEG to Word, emp. mine)
Also, as for these Maccabean Jews, a Jewish site tells us that the rededication of the Temple was,
led by Judas Maccabeus, third son of Mattathias the Hasmonean, whose successors established the Hasmonean high priesthood dynasty. But which were not a valid high priesthood due to invalid lineage, (Genesis 49:10) being not of the lineage of David, as the Zadoks were, and their line ended up opening the door to the Roman conquest. Their control ended when Herod eliminated every male in the Hasmonean line. (Though The Herodian Dynasty had Hasmonean blood thru two sons and two daughters. through Mariamne.)
Due to the unpopularity of its founders, Hanukkah itself came to be largely ignored within a few decades after its origins. Then when Rome’s crushing power began to be felt in Palestine, the people recognized in Hanukkah a message of hope that new Maccabees would rise and independence would be restored. - The Hasmonean Dynasty | My Jewish Learning
Read Aquinas on authority:
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3104.htm
Legitimate authority is confined to its proper sphere. If a person in authority steps outside that sphere, his authority does not bind.
It is not in any Pope’s power to modify the doctrine of the faith. He cannot command what Christ didn’t give him to command. So if he does so, it is proper to resist him.
If he stays within his own authority, then he should be obeyed. Say Francis put my parish under the interdict tomorrow because he doesn’t like the Latin Mass: told us we could not receive any sacraments. I would be bound to obey it, because that is a proper (though insanely unjust) exercise of authority.
Do me a favor and distill your argument into a short point I can respond to—I am busy and don’t have time to respond to each charge in full.
But it should be easy to cut me off at the knees with one stroke. Find me any early Christian writer who holds all or at least most of the Protestant distinctives.
“Then it seems you must censor the uncensored devotion of revered “saints” in your church who explicitly or implicitly teach all graces come thru Mary, that no one comes to God except thru Mary, and the necessity of going to Christ thru Mary if one really wants to be blessed, that “No one achieves salvation except through you”
So it seems to you.
All this bickering & rancor regarding Catholics & the Blessed Mother, IMO serves Satan’s desire that the Body of Christ be fragmented & divided against it’s self. I refuse to participate in that kind of nonsense.
Thankfully I don’t require any validation from keyboard warriors/antagonists to explain my belief in Jesus Christ. I’m a happy, thankful Catholic convert. I will point out blatant fallacies/falsehoods when I see them & feel it’s appropriate to do so as I have done in this thread. If you don’t agree with Catholicism then stay away from Catholicism. It’s that simple, IMO.
For the answer to any other questions or observations you might have, I refer you to post #372.
Have a blessed day :)
Roman Catholics get a little sensitive when their church writings on Mary are brought to light.
These writings expose many of the false doctrines attributed to Mary by Roman Catholicism.
The necessity of having to go through Mary to Jesus or that if we serve Mary we're guaranteed Heaven go against what is revealed in the NT. I can see why the Roman Catholic doesn't like this brought out in the light of day.
See post #372
That’s all I have to say.
Hope you & yours have a blessed day.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.