HERETIC!!
You've made Mary CRY!!!
--Poorly_Catechized_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary!!)
Posted on 07/17/2017 8:08:32 AM PDT by ebb tide
“Francis is more interested in leftwing politics than in Catholic theology”, George Neumayr, contributing editor of The American Spectator, states talking to Tom Woods on July 14th on tomwoods.com. Woods describes Francis as a result of John Paul II who - as he puts it - appointed "absolutely terrible people" as bishops: "Catholics have suffered under Bergoglios for decades now”.
Neumayr agrees that a lot of the liberal bishops were appointed by John Paul II and Benedict XVI. He sees Francis as the “culmination of a century” of liberalism and modernism in the Church.
For him it is "highly unlikely" that Francis, who in his theology is “more a Protestant than a Catholic” will convert to Catholicism. Instead, the realistic scenario is that Francis will produce division and chaos, "Catholics will have to decide whether they guard the faith over papolatry.”
And: “The Cardinals have to declare that Francis is a bad pope who must be resisted.”
As have I.
Paul sets up the sentence structure to place ‘faith’ and ‘works’ in a strong dichotomy. You might say ‘faith NOT works’ with the word ‘not’ in 48 point font.
But "works" here means "works of the Law," i.e. circumcision and the Mosaic Law. It does not mean that we are free from the requirement to follow the moral law. This is clear in what Paul writes in Chapter 2:
By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. There is no partiality with God. (Romans 2:5-11)The whole point of Romans is a refutation of the claims of the Judaizers. We can see this in Paul's opening statements:
Circumcision, to be sure, has value if you observe the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Again, if an uncircumcised man keeps the precepts of the law, will he not be considered circumcised? Indeed, those who are physically uncircumcised but carry out the law will pass judgment on you, with your written law and circumcision, who break the law. One is not a Jew outwardly. True circumcision is not outward, in the flesh. Rather, one is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not the letter; his praise is not from human beings but from God. (Romans 2:25-29)Everything that follows is an explanation of this. To try to expand Paul's statements to say that we are not required to follow the moral law is to misuse him.Does God belong to Jews alone? Does he not belong to Gentiles, too? Yes, also to Gentiles, for God is one and will justify the circumcised on the basis of faith and the uncircumcised through faith. (Romans 3:29-30)
I was talking about Ephesians, not Romans.
Yeah; the pew warmers.
The AUTHORIES say to take it or leave it with what the Apparition has told folks.
You are only replying to post #14.
Come back to us when you've gone thru #260 and let's see if you are STILL so adamant in your statements.
I forgive you for your false statement against our Catholic Church & encourage you to educate yourself on Catholicism before making more false statements.
Are you wearing a Brown Scapula?
WOW!
You’ve jumped to reply #269!!
Not really.
I’ve had it a LOOOoong time.
All the Catholic quotes are out there to be found by ANYONE who cares enough to actually BACK UP what they so boldly assert here on FR.
You've made Mary CRY!!!
--Poorly_Catechized_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary!!)
Paul's point is we're unable to. In the OT they had sacrifices in the Temple to cleanse the sin. We have the blood of Christ.
Hence faith in Christ is required.
I'm currently doing a Greek exegesis study on James for my seminary class.
It's been interesting to line up Paul and James to clarify what they're saying. There's so much more background to the story!
If folks would just READ the Book that Rome assembled; so long ago...
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Guerric:
…he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.
“Are you wearing a Brown Scapula?”
Nope. I wear a crucifix.
I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Doing Catholic Sacraments is not ‘doing good works’. What Paul is teaching is allowing The Holy Spirit to guide you in being raised up int he way that you should go. ‘Good works’ are a natural outcome of The Holy Spirit in the human spirit; fealt6y to a ‘church’ is not the source of good works we should walk in. The whole body of Christ is to whom the teaching is directed.
First, Paul is clear in Romans that God "will repay everyone according to his works." What is true in Romans is also true in Ephesians.
Turning to Ephesians, we see here that Paul's use of "works" is the same as in Romans, i.e. "works of the Law."
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. Therefore, remember that at one time you, Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by those called the circumcision, which is done in the flesh by human hands, were at that time without Christ, alienated from the community of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:8-22)The works which might cause boasting that is mentioned here is what had, up to then, separated the Jews and the gentiles, i.e. circumcision and the Mosaic Law. In Christ Jesus Jews and gentiles have been united into one body with the abolition of circumcision and the old Law of Moses. To read Ephesians to mean that we are no longer bound by the moral law is to misunderstand Paul. This is made clear in the following:
So be imitators of God, as beloved children, and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma. Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:1-5)These words are spoken to believing Christians, not to pagans who have not yet accepted Jesus Christ. Despite our faith, immorality can loose us our salvation. Protestant attempts to take the words of Paul in isolation to support "faith alone" are examples of forcing Scripture to support the man-made traditions of Martin Luther and the other Reformers rather than relying on Scripture itself.
Your statement makes no sense what-so-ever.
If Paul’s words about ‘works’ are nothing but circumcision, then it’s really stupid to claim that salvation is not through circumcision, but then that God will judge us by our ‘works’ of circumcision.
How do you justify breaking up the Law of God into circumcision on one hand, and then keeping everything else?
In Romans 3, when Paul refers to ‘works of the law,’ he refers to far more than simply circumcision. He specifically refers to lies in chapter 3, to faithlessness in the heart in chapter 2, to stealing, adultery, and idol-worship, also in Chapter 2.
All these things fall under the heading of ‘works of the Law’ when Paul writes in his letter to the Romans.
I also believe that it was Jesus who said, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
Heaven and earth, I notice, have not passed away, nor has all of Jesus’ work been accomplished, since he has not yet returned. Therefore, either we are justified by the ENTIRE Law, including the Ten Commandments, or we are not.
The ‘render according to his works’ verse that you referred to is only one verse in the entire first three chapters of the letter to the Romans. Of course, Paul then spends the rest of the chapter and into Chapter 3 explaining how there is not a single person who is righteous and who deserves anything from God. So rendering to us according to our works, without grace, is nothing but giving punishment to us.
And then Paul comes to this:
“21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.”
Paul does not say grace-and-works, Paul does not say grace-plus-merit, Paul does not say grace-plus-sacraments, Paul does not say grace-plus-membership-in-some-church-in-Rome.
If you think that the Romanist works were so necessary for salvation, wouldn’t Paul have mentioned them? Wouldn’t he have explained them? The closest we get is the ‘law of faith,’ and Paul then spends the entirety of chapter 4 explaining how Abraham’s righteousness didn’t come from anything he did, but instead because he believed the Lord’s promises.
Seminary class? Good onya!
Which seminary?
I ask bb to post the information regarding how Roman Catholic writers used “faith alone” in their writings. It’s very eye opening.
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