Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
Posted on 06/23/2017 9:12:09 AM PDT by ebb tide
Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
The commission consists of representatives from all three denominations, all bound to secrecy.
The journalist, who is well known in Italy for his accurate reporting of all things happening in the Vatican, has said that while this news is merely a “rumor” at this point, his “sources are usually good.”
According to his sources, the commission is finding little difficulty in finding common ground in the “liturgy of the word”. Tosatti reports: “After the confession of sins, asking for forgiveness, and reciting the Gloria, there would be the readings and the Gospel.”
He also said that the commission is allegedly studying the problem of the Creed. Protestant churches prefer to pray the Apostles’ Creed, although they do recognize the Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church alternates between them. So not even this point should be a major problem.
The presentation of the gifts likewise does not present a major obstacle to the project.
According to Tosatti, the central issue lies in the Eucharist, since the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is profoundly different from that of the Lutherans or of other Protestant denominations. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, while Protestants believe that it is merely a memorial.
Tosatti reports that a possible “solution” being proposed is that the words of Consecration be replaced by silence:
But how can a common liturgy be celebrated that clearly differs in the wording right at the most important point of the event?
One of the proposed possible solutions would be silence. It would mean that after the Sanctus, at the moment in which normally during the Mass the priest would say the words: “Father, you are holy indeed…” the different celebrants would keep silent, everyone mentally repeating “his own” formula.
The silence is broken in the congregation with the recitation of the Our Father. It is still not clear how the lines for Communion would be formed.
In light of this well-founded rumor, we should take heed of the remarks of Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, a close collaborator of Pope Francis and currently the President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. The Vatican cardinal has suggested that we stop thinking of sacraments so rigidly as only either valid or invalid. For the sake of ecumenism, he opined that we should start looking into sacraments perhaps having “imperfect” or “partial” validity. Below are his exact words, as published in his exclusive interview with Edward Pentin of the National Catholic Register:
We say, everything is valid; nothing is valid. Maybe we have to reflect on this concept of validity or invalidity. The Second Vatican Council said there is a true communion [between Catholics and Protestants] even if it is not yet definitive or full. You see, they made a concept not so decisive, either all or nothing. There’s a communion that is already good, but some elements are missing. But, if you say some things are missing and that therefore there is nothing, you err. There are pieces missing, but there is already a communion, but it is not full communion. The same thing can be said, or something similar, of the validity or invalidity of ordination. I said let’s think about it. It’s a hypothesis. Maybe there is something, or maybe there’s nothing — a study, a reflection. ∎
by John Supplers, Veritas Vincit
a new kind of “mass” that is acceptable to Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans.
Well, if there's going to be an apostate end times one world religion, the pope wants to be right on top of it.
He also said that the commission is allegedly studying the problem of the Creed. Protestant churches prefer to pray the Apostles’ Creed, although they do recognize the Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church alternates between them. So not even this point should be a major problem.
Nicene Creed is not a problem. It is true that I hear the Apostles' Creed much more, but we do sometimes say the Nicene.
According to Tosatti, the central issue lies in the Eucharist, since the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is profoundly different from that of the Lutherans or of other Protestant denominations. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, while Protestants believe that it is merely a memorial
Lutherans would certainly object to that characterization. The Reformed Churches should.
Enjoy your Pope, by the way.
How do you feel about Assisi I?
Did you really "type" it? Or did you cut and paste it? Let's be honest.
What about? I would pray for his/her conversion to the One, True Faith before his/her expiration. That's the Catholic "thing" to do.
Can’t we all just get along?
If I was the vet, I'd ask for a Catholic priest.
Heck. The current pope can't even get along with his own cardinals. He hides from them now.
I typed it. Sheesh. I can’t cut and paste on my Kindle.
You can type, but not cut and paste?
Interesting.
Yes; there are a number of Catholic things to do. There are the Seven Penitential Psalms. There is the Rosary. There are short aspirations: "Trust the Lord: He is trustworthy. Trust Him with all your heart." There are prescribed prayers for the dying, in fact, commending the soul to Divine Mercy.
All this is done in the realization that the man (it's always been a man) may not be conscious of what you're saying: his cognitive powers are usually much impaired. That's why touch (holding his hand, for instance) is so important.
And sometimes I sing.
Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All,
How can I love Thee as I ought?
The Catholic vets usually do ask for a priest at the end, if they are conscious.
You can italicize text on your Kindle, yet you cannot cut and paste?
Very interesting.
Sorry meant to post to you.
You probably know that, right?
Post what to me?
P.S. I have a Kindle. I can cut an paste from it; but I can’t type new text.
The saved do not have their sins counted against them.
They have been declared judicially pardoned.
Now, EVERY believer is going to have some sin in their lives that it going to need to be accounted for.
NOBODY is perfect and there is no way that anyone can reach the level of perfection that God requires.
So everyone is going to have something they haven’t forgiven someone for. Or something they haven’t asked for forgiveness for.
So if you make salvation dependent on that, rather than faith in Jesus, then no, nobody is going to make it to heaven.
Besides, people often deal with forgiving others after they get saved, when they have the Spirit granted ability to do hat.
By requiring us to forgive before we get saved, you are asking an unsaved person to do something that they most likely are not capable of doing in the first place.
You might as well ask a baby to climb Mt Everest.
No, I am not saying Jesus is not God.
I am saying what Scripture says. You know,k the stuff you guys claim YOUR church wrote in the first place.
Mary is *mother of Jesus* according to Scripture.
Saying *mother of God* means something entirely different.
Because the issue with the title isn’t about who Jesus is, although Catholics continually make it and try to make it about that.
The issue is about who the title says Mary is.
I have a Kindle Paperwhite, so I don’t not what you’re talking about.
However, I see on a Kindle Fire, that one can “cut and paste”.
What version Kindle is yours?
I’m Anglican and I believe He is truly present in the Eucharist. We believe in The Real Presence.
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