Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
Posted on 06/23/2017 9:12:09 AM PDT by ebb tide
Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
The commission consists of representatives from all three denominations, all bound to secrecy.
The journalist, who is well known in Italy for his accurate reporting of all things happening in the Vatican, has said that while this news is merely a “rumor” at this point, his “sources are usually good.”
According to his sources, the commission is finding little difficulty in finding common ground in the “liturgy of the word”. Tosatti reports: “After the confession of sins, asking for forgiveness, and reciting the Gloria, there would be the readings and the Gospel.”
He also said that the commission is allegedly studying the problem of the Creed. Protestant churches prefer to pray the Apostles’ Creed, although they do recognize the Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church alternates between them. So not even this point should be a major problem.
The presentation of the gifts likewise does not present a major obstacle to the project.
According to Tosatti, the central issue lies in the Eucharist, since the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is profoundly different from that of the Lutherans or of other Protestant denominations. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, while Protestants believe that it is merely a memorial.
Tosatti reports that a possible “solution” being proposed is that the words of Consecration be replaced by silence:
But how can a common liturgy be celebrated that clearly differs in the wording right at the most important point of the event?
One of the proposed possible solutions would be silence. It would mean that after the Sanctus, at the moment in which normally during the Mass the priest would say the words: “Father, you are holy indeed…” the different celebrants would keep silent, everyone mentally repeating “his own” formula.
The silence is broken in the congregation with the recitation of the Our Father. It is still not clear how the lines for Communion would be formed.
In light of this well-founded rumor, we should take heed of the remarks of Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, a close collaborator of Pope Francis and currently the President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. The Vatican cardinal has suggested that we stop thinking of sacraments so rigidly as only either valid or invalid. For the sake of ecumenism, he opined that we should start looking into sacraments perhaps having “imperfect” or “partial” validity. Below are his exact words, as published in his exclusive interview with Edward Pentin of the National Catholic Register:
We say, everything is valid; nothing is valid. Maybe we have to reflect on this concept of validity or invalidity. The Second Vatican Council said there is a true communion [between Catholics and Protestants] even if it is not yet definitive or full. You see, they made a concept not so decisive, either all or nothing. There’s a communion that is already good, but some elements are missing. But, if you say some things are missing and that therefore there is nothing, you err. There are pieces missing, but there is already a communion, but it is not full communion. The same thing can be said, or something similar, of the validity or invalidity of ordination. I said let’s think about it. It’s a hypothesis. Maybe there is something, or maybe there’s nothing — a study, a reflection. ∎
by John Supplers, Veritas Vincit
That's true. But non-Catholic Caucus threads always get derailed.
Not *in* there. *Out* there.
He speaks for me, too.
Let US know when you put some action to your words.
I don't know. Ask him. I can't read his mind.
Can the two of you make up your minds?
About what?
Simple. I follow Christ. As all Christians do.
Proving once again the Roman Catholic is usually the first to resort to profanity or get personal. Almost predictable.
If heaven were assured to those who have once professed belief =--- no matter what we do --- Jesus would not have given us solemn warnings like this:
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Oopsie, ha-ha, just kiddin', you know?
If that ‘day’ is what you are looking forward to, then you are in deep kimchi. CHRISTIANS will be long gone to Heaven by the time that day of which Jesus spoke arrives, for it is the great White Throne of Judgment day, and The Born from Above, having been removed from earth and taken to the Father’s House will be returning with Jesus to witness the righteous Judgment, not be judged there. Christians will already have been before the Bema Seat of Christ, in heaven, before the day of the Great White Throne happens.
John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
There seems to be a contradiction here, if, as you say, ALL the Christians had long-since gone to heaven (raptured, right?) by the time this resurrection event occurs.
If that is so, then later on, non-Christians (who are resurrected) will be going to hell based on their bad works, or to heaven, based on their good works.
I don't think that's what you'd want to say, neighbor.
Is it?
(I am prescinding from any judgment, myself, for now.)
Reading it again for clarity:
John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I don’t see how one could get personal with a heretic who’s been dead for over 400 years.
John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
MHG thinks this passage is meant only for non-Christians, since the Christians will by that time be raptured outta there.
Myself, I think it applies to everybody.
What do you think? Applies to non-Christians only, or applies to everybody?
I'm not surprised that you let others speak for you.
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
You, sir are in disagreement with your pope. You, by your continued actions of posting articles against the pope are in defiance of Unam Sanctum.
Who are you, (or any other Roman Catholic)...a mere lay Roman Catholic, to question the Pope?
The Bride of Christ is a special category, accumulated during the 'Church Age' following the Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus.
Just as Jesus lead captivity captive when He came up out of the grave (all those faithful such as Abraham), so all those since the advent of the Church Age will be brought to the Father's House.
During the Tribulation a number so great no man of John's epoch could number it will show up in Heaven by the work of faith acting through the Holy Spirit.
During the millenial kingdom, with the Truth of God's Grace so openly known, men will behave according to their will, most bending their will to follow God's path, some rebelling against God's Way.
If you know when the Great White Throne of Judgment occurs, you can figure out who is to be brought before the Throne just prior to GOD rolling away the current Universe and establishing a new Heavens and new Earth.
BTW, the term Christians refers to a special class of believers DURING THE CHURCH AGE. Abraham was not a Christian, persons showing up in Heaven during the Tribulation are not Christians, etc, if that helps.
Who was Saint Paul? Who was St. Athanasius? Who was St. Catherine of Sienna?
Xareful, Ebb, you’re sounding like a Protest ant, not a Luther Protestant, a modern Protest ant.
only members of the Ekklesia.
Ekklesia means Church but like every thing else if we don`t like what it says all we need to do is start playing with words and interpretations.
And both Catholics and protestants do that so one is just as big a liars as the other at least as far as individuals are concerned.
Who was Saint Paul? Who was St. Athanasius? Who was St. Catherine of Sienna?
Who was Luther for that matter?
You can't have it both ways.
Unam Sanctum doesn't give you the right to question the Pope if you're a Roman Catholic.
I suppose we could say the early believers making up the Ekklesia were 'protestants', rebelling from Judaism. But that's a odd way to identify them.
LOL
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