Posted on 05/31/2017 1:41:09 PM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"
Answer: First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
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They are definitely not out of context!
You are inserting your own words and misunderstanding in place of the word of God.
No man is saved until the day of Trumpets!
So pretending that you are saved, and then using your present misunderstanding as though it is perfected by the Holy Spirit has led you to a Biblically untenable position.
John says that Torah is the gospel of the Kingdom, so imagining something else that is the creation of your own mind as the “gospel message” is where you get lost in the woods.
Check it all against John’s first epistle; that is our clearest, most cogent guide. It meshes perfectly with Paul’s epistle to the Romans, presenting a perfect picture.
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Good points.
Thank you!
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In your mind perhaps!
I post the full context always, and back it up with other Biblical authors on the same subject.
(something you have never done, to my knowledge)
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Interesting how you use your own words, rather than scripture, and then sit
back to admire the creation.
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If you dump the “isms” and turn to the same scriptures that Yeshua and his apostles had, Sola Scriptura stands out as obviously foundational.
Be a Berean!
I believe you will find that most, if not all, OTC Christians do not have anything to do with a crucifix as Jesus is not on the cross anymore.
When Christians pray on their knees it is an act of contrition and respect for God.
We can come to the great Throne of Grace as the Bible says, boldly come to that place.
We do not bow to anything except God.
When I was a Catholic, I would have agreed with your interpretations. Since I am no longer a catholic, I don't think I interpret the scriptures even remotely close to the way you do, but I will comment on that one statement. If a person waits till they take their last breath, to determine if they go to Heaven of Hell, it is almost a 💯% ironclad guarantee, that they will end up in Hell. 🔥
Eternity is too long a time, to mess it up. I have no intention of waiting that long, and ending up with the short end of the stick. If other people want to do that, the responsibility for their own destruction is on them. I ain't gonna do it.
And how many translations do Roman Catholics have???
Read Heb. 6:1-3 and try hard to tie it to what the writer is saying in 4-8. Christians, he says, can fail to produce the kind of crop that God intended. And it is futile to think that simple, basic teaching about fundamentals of faith will move them in the midst of their crucifying activity. And, yes they will be destined for fire, unless they are somehow moved to recognize what they are doing. They are dogs returning to their vomit.
But his current audience is not to that point of crucifying their Savior again. So, he looks forward, God willing, to extending their knowledge and their faith toward perseverance.
So, in context, it is not for all time impossible for them to come to repentance, just not by simple truths presented in their present frame of mind and action.
This is saying based on your understanding of the text, is if you lose your salvation.....you cannot get it back.
Correct me if I've mis-stated your position on this.
There will come a day in which we will know him fully as we are fully known, and, as the hymn says, “my will be lost in thine.” In a new heavens and a new earth, categories of will may not carry the same implications as we see now.
““All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”
And right there the Roman denomination goes off the rails!
Calling Mary blessed by God is not part of worship - which is reserved for God alone.
If you look at the full statement, you would see that the Church’s special devotion to Mary differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit. The devotion to Mary is not Christian worship. Rather, it is intrinsic to Christian worship in that it greatly fosters the adoration that is given to God.
Here is the full paragraph.
“All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.” The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. CCC 971
Essentially all the assurances have to do with God’s side of the covenant he made with us. He is assuring us that he will not walk away from the terms of the covenant. The most commonly praised attribute of God is his covenant faithfulness. The darkest opprobrium for man is that he is a covenant-breaker.
Under the New Covenant man has no excuse, having received the Holy Spirit, the very life of Christ by whom to live. However Hebrews 6:1-8 shows that man can walk away from and reject even that grace.
“If you look at the full statement, you would see that the Church’s special devotion to Mary differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit. “
The difference of worship between God and a demigod.
1 Corinthians 13:12
After all God adopted you for ever. He loves you with an infinite Love, and by your Baptism He pledged that He would watch over you all of your life, and to protect you and the covenant that God made with you in your Baptism so that you could spend eternity with Him. Even though His commitment to you and the indelible mark that you have on your soul may be and are eternal, His experience with humans since Adam and Eve says we cannot be trusted. Without His omnipotence and His continuous guard over us we will most likely be unfaithful without His faithfulness to reinforce us.
The good news and the most excellent news is that you are still a Catholic through your Baptism and your belief system, and even though you do not continue to claim Him and your Catholicity He still holds Himself to the covenant that He made with you through your Baptism. He will do so forever. Don't be startled or surprised when you turn around and find that He is still there in the form of His children here on Earth who have pledged themselves to love you and others like you for Him. We who you can see since you can't see Him see 1 John 4:20 & 21.
As far as your Scriptural interpretation and the distance you have put between you and the God of your youth, as the Church of Ephesus in Apocalypse 2:4&5, you have left your first charity. This inevitably happens to the ones who file for the divorce. God will be faithful even if you are not.
Note: All quotes are from the Douay-Rheims Bible.
After all God adopted you for ever. He loves you with an infinite Love, and by your Baptism He pledged that He would watch over you all of your life, and to protect you and the covenant that God made with you in your Baptism so that you could spend eternity with Him. Even though His commitment to you and the indelible mark that you have on your soul may be and are eternal, His experience with humans since Adam and Eve says we cannot be trusted. Without His omnipotence and His continuous guard over us we will most likely be unfaithful without His faithfulness to reinforce us.
The good news and the most excellent news is that you are still a Catholic through your Baptism and your belief system, and even though you do not continue to claim Him and your Catholicity He still holds Himself to the covenant that He made with you through your Baptism. He will do so forever. Don't be startled or surprised when you turn around and find that He is still there in the form of His children here on Earth who have pledged themselves to love you and others like you for Him. We who you can see since you can't see Him see 1 John 4:20 & 21.
As far as your Scriptural interpretation and the distance you have put between you and the God of your youth, as the Church of Ephesus in Apocalypse 2:4&5, you have left your first charity. This inevitably happens to the ones who file for the divorce. God will be faithful even if you are not.
Note: All quotes are from the Douay-Rheims Bible.
After all God adopted you for ever. He loves you with an infinite Love, and by your Baptism He pledged that He would watch over you all of your life, and to protect you and the covenant that God made with you in your Baptism so that you could spend eternity with Him. Even though His commitment to you and the indelible mark that you have on your soul may be and are eternal, His experience with humans since Adam and Eve says we cannot be trusted. Without His omnipotence and His continuous guard over us we will most likely be unfaithful without His faithfulness to reinforce us.
The good news and the most excellent news is that you are still a Catholic through your Baptism and your belief system, and even though you do not continue to claim Him and your Catholicity He still holds Himself to the covenant that He made with you through your Baptism. He will do so forever. Don't be startled or surprised when you turn around and find that He is still there in the form of His children here on Earth who have pledged themselves to love you and others like you for Him. We who you can see since you can't see Him see 1 John 4:20 & 21.
As far as your Scriptural interpretation and the distance you have put between you and the God of your youth, as the Church of Ephesus in Apocalypse 2:4&5, you have left your first charity. This inevitably happens to the ones who file for the divorce. God will be faithful even if you are not.
Note: All quotes are from the Douay-Rheims Bible.
Yeah, seems you have misstated what I, perhaps poorly, tried to communicate.
The word “impossible” here is a word that carries the idea of futility and weakness. What I was trying to say is that the writer is saying that simple teachings of repentance, baptism, etc, from vv 1-3, are “futile” in bringing these people back to repentance, who are in the process of crucifying Christ over again.
He is not saying it is impossible *at any time* to bring them back to repentance, just that simple basic teaching won’t do it in their present state — they already know all that stuff. It is futile to try.
However, the writer makes plain that they had experienced all the grace God could pour out on them, and still were destined to be consumed if they continued their present course.
His final point is that his readers hadn’t reached that same point, so he wanted to bring them to knowledge beyond the basic stuff to encourage them to remain faithful to the covenant God instituted in Christ.
Second try... any clearer?
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