Posted on 05/27/2017 9:15:17 AM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "What is the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture? What does it mean that the Bible is sufficient?"
Answer: The doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith. To say the Scriptures are sufficient means that the Bible is all we need to equip us for a life of faith and service. It provides a clear demonstration of God’s intention to restore the broken relationship between Himself and humanity through His Son, Jesus Christ, our Savior through the gift of faith. No other writings are necessary for this good news to be understood, nor are any other writings required to equip us for a life of faith.
(Excerpt) Read more at gotquestions.org ...
That is patently dishonest. YOU don't get to say what the constitutes Holy Tradition, just as you don't get to say God commanded what He didn't.
Actually, it's very honest.
The writings of the ECFs Catholics cling too are not considered to be inspired nor were they included in the Catholic canon at Trent.
In many of these discussions the opinion of the various ECFs are disregarded when they disagree with the Catholic.
I can see your understanding of this issue is very limited.
Really? Why don't you name the genus of the fallacy?
Really? Then why do you keep trying to bring supposed Catholic crimes into the mix instead of documenting and validating your here-to-for gratuitous denials with accepted principles of logic and argument.
It would be as if I said "The Constitution is the only guide needed for law in America" , but then continued "sadly the version we are used to is corrupted and the 2nd and 5th Amendments are hereby removed, along with some parts of Article 2."
Convenient, especially if the parts being removed or mis-translated concern things like Divorce that the secular-power responsible for the Versioning find inconvenient. (As was the case with both the English Bibles and Luther-edited Bibles.)
I think the Protestant reformation did, at least initially, draw attention to areas were the Catholic Church was very corrupt. And, as student of history I am quite willing to conceded that there were many corrupt popes.
What I'm not willing to concede is that Catholics are not Christian, that's a ridiculous and bigoted belief. To compare the Catholic Church to Mormonism is absurd. I would never say that Protestantism is like Scientology, because I am intellectually honest enough to admit that Protestants and Catholics are members of the same religion, just holding different views on things, and in my opinion neither is right about everything.
You are, sadly, continuing the great Protestant tradition of schism, breaking apart what should be one into two, three, twenty, two hundred, two thousand different entities.
If other Protestant sects disagree with your on other key doctrines (say predestination) do you also consider them Non-Christian, but an entirely different religion.
What Church did you grow up in? Have you changed from one sect to another as an adult? These are pretty simple questions which you seem unwilling to answer.
And I can see you make accusations and toss around speculative conclusions about what "should have" been done if you were wrong instead of admitting you can't give any more substance than your gratuitous assertions (which by the laws of reasoning may be just as gratuitously denied).
When the Catholic resorts to this failed attempt to discredit the authority of relying upon the Scripture, it confirms the Catholic is arguing from a lack of understanding of the topic.
The Catholic continues to advance the argument the Scriptures have been altered by Luther and others.
To continue that line of reasoning dismisses the overwhelming evidence of the copies of the texts we have of the NT.
If something is altered, as the Mormon does, we can determine through comparison of the documents the error. This has been done so very thoroughly with Mormonism.
Again, as noted...Scripture testifies to itself of its sufficiency.
What I'm not willing to concede is that Catholics are not Christian, that's a ridiculous and bigoted belief.
However, that is exactly what Catholics say about non-Catholics.
That aside, the Catholic that relies upon Mary for salvation, prays to her, wears the Scapular, etc, is not relying upon Christ and Christ alone rendering their belief non-Christian.
As the Roman Catholic church supports the above, it is right to call into question if a Catholic is a Christian.
A Christian is a follower of Christ. A Christian relies upon faith in Christ for their salvation. Not a created being. Not a piece of cloth or a medal.
To rely upon those shows a lack of faith in Christ.
To compare the Catholic Church to Mormonism is absurd. I would never say that Protestantism is like Scientology, because I am intellectually honest enough to admit that Protestants and Catholics are members of the same religion, just holding different views on things, and in my opinion neither is right about everything.
The comparison between the RCC and Mormonism is the accordance of non-Scriptural writings an equal, if not in some cases greater, authority than inspired Scripture.
The Catholic position on the Mass and the consumption of flesh and blood as necessary for salvation vs the Biblical position of faith in Christ is not a minor disagreement.
“He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.” Luke 24:25-27
So here, Jesus refers to all the Scripture as the Old Testament. None of the New Testament was yet written. Clearly, Christ was showing how Old Testament Scripture proved what He had done.
And let’s look at the verse you quote from Timothy – I expanded it a bit: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." 2 Tim 3:14-15
Now let’s look at context and reality:
1. This was written to Timothy
2. Timothy was born in 17 AD
The Scripture Timothy knew from infancy and what Paul is referring to is Old Testament. The New Testament wasn't written at the time of Timothy’s infancy.
Yes, all Scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NOWHERE does Scripture say that Scripture is all we need. Scripture DOES say the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
Not my Church, the Church Christ established.
Just read the Scripture in context.
Christ established a Church: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18
And yes, the Church Christ established is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Try to take the words of Scripture literally, instead of following your man-made beliefs.
Show where Scripture says it is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Show where Scripture defines the table of contents of Scripture.
It is obvious to me that you know no more about evidence and logic than a child, and your arguments are all basically some variation of “my dad can whip your dad.”
I have continually asked you for the logical principles by which you deny my assertions, and you have produced NOT ONE.
You are a WORTHLESS SERVANT, fancying yourself an “expert” on a subject when all you know of the subject is YOUR sect’s doctrine. I urge you to remedy that situation and you should start that long and involved undertaking by studying Paul’s approach to the pagans in the Book of Acts.
Finally, “Discrediting” YOUR authority to interpret Scripture is NOT discrediting the authority of Scripture. I truly hope your pontificating is just a failure of your writing ability and not the real measure of your presumption of speaking for God.
And who do you think devised the religions of the world?
There are over 30,000 Christian denominations - all of which manage to interpret some parts of the Bible differently and all supposedly based on the Bible along with other man-made interpretations to suit someone that was walking on the planet during their inception.
Ironic that one in a man-made religion doesn't like that the sufficiency of the Bible meme because it's a "man-made belief"....
As the OT is Scripture and the NT is Scripture the principle holds. ALL scripture.
And again the Catholic is the first to resort to the personal attack when the argument goes against them....again.
When you skew church history as you have done, you can make up anything you want and call it truth...
The saints and martyrs of the early church were not Catholic...While there is not a lot written from these early Christians there is sufficient history written about them from the Catholic religion...
Those early non Catholic Christians were persecuted and murdered and tortured for believing in what amounts to the sufficiency of the scriptures and not willing to bow down to the Catholic religion and it's bishops and popes...
BTW, where does the writer claim the writings he's referring to would come to be considered Scripture?
So you don't think the book of John is scripture??? You lost the argument right there...
The Inquisition and later treatment of those trying to translate the texts into the local languages speaks volumes against the RCC. Authentic Christianity tries to find every way it can to get the Gospel into the hands of the people.
It hasn’t “gone against me” YET, because YOU have yet to provide a single thing apart from gainsaying.
As for “attacks,” well that’s what happens when you’re a troll. And after you made the specific charge of fallacy reasoning against me, then wouldn’t provide the type of fallacy you’re charging, I don’t think you’re going to get too much help from the mods.
. I want your posts to remain for all to see.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.