Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is the Pope a heretic? (3) [Catholic Caucus]
Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment ^ | Fr. John Hunwicke

Posted on 05/20/2017 3:34:59 PM PDT by ebb tide

0 May 2017

Is the Pope a heretic? (3)

So Bergoglio is presenting to our imagination a scenario in which, in 33 A.D., the Old Dispensation came to an end. No longer was it right for an Establishment to consider that the final word had been spoken and that it was up to them to apply it. So God suddenly broke in etc. etc. etc..  

AND  the same situation, argues Pope Francis, faces us now. Now, in 2017, there are again those for whom the final word has been spoken and it is up to them to apply it. The Pontiff clearly desires such people to repent and to accept that God is suddenly breaking in, upsetting all the rules, and offering new possibilities.

Just as AD 33 was the moment when true obedience required men to realise that the old rules given through Moses no longer applied, so 2017 is the moment when true obedience requires men to realise that the old rules given by Jesus through His Apostles no longer apply.

God did it once ... the Old Testament was replaced by the New; an Old Age was replaced by a New. Why should God not be capable of doing the very same thing again? And so, indeed, the Roman Pontiff goes on to proclaim just such a radically new dispensation: God once more comes to meet us, to create and cosolidate a new age, the age of mercy ... this is God's surprise for his faithful people.

The problem here is that we are being presented with a narrative that is difficult to reconcile with the narrative and with the narrative structures which have hitherto been deemed to be part of the fundamental grammar of Christian self-understanding. Vatican II (Dei Verbum para 4) interestingly and intelligently described this as the Oeconomia Christiana. It went on to explain, fairly briefly because it was then accepted as a common-place which hardly needed in polite theological company to be lengthily argued, that foedus novum et definitivum numquam praeteribit, et nulla nova revelatio publica expectanda est ante gloriosam manifestationem Domini nostri Iesu Christi [the new and definitive covenant will never pass away, and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ].


True, Bergoglio has not explicitly proclaimed the replacement of the New Covenant with an Even Newer Covenant, what might be called the Bergoglian Third Covenant. But I cannot convince myself that this is not what his words actually and clearly mean. The tip-over from the Old to the New in the first Christian century is paralleled by the tip-over into a new age, the age of mercy in the pontificate of Bergoglio. In each case, the New sets aside the Old and the test of true obedience is acceptance of this displacement; acceptance of the 'New' and of the 'Divine Surprise'. If we cannot let the Spirit lead us on this road, Bergoglio assures us, then we are not Christians.

I shall return to finish this series after a couple of days in which I indulgently invite you to celebrate the Golden Jubilee of my Deaconing. Meanwhile, I will enable no comments.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: francischurch

1 posted on 05/20/2017 3:35:00 PM PDT by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Bmk


2 posted on 05/20/2017 3:37:15 PM PDT by Popman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

I’m leaning towards “Antipope”.

“An antipope (Latin: antipapa) is a person who, in opposition to the one who is generally seen as the legitimately elected Pope, makes a significantly accepted competing claim to be the Pope, the Bishop of Rome and leader of the Catholic Church. At times between the 3rd and mid-15th century, antipopes were supported by a fairly significant faction of religious cardinals and secular monarchs and kingdoms.”


3 posted on 05/20/2017 3:46:14 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Baizuo" A derogatory term the Chinese are using to describe America's naive "White Left")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

My guess is that he is an atheist.


4 posted on 05/20/2017 3:52:42 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Who gives a ####.

Those who are wringing their hands over this pope have ZEZO FAITH and that’s a shame.

The Papacy was a DISASTER in the middle ages.

This pope will drop one day, as will we all, and we will get a new pope, who we hope will hold the true values of the Roman Catholic Church.

In the end, the bible tells us what’s right and what’s wrong.

Don’t have to sweat hell if you follow that and not a man.


5 posted on 05/20/2017 4:09:10 PM PDT by dp0622 (The only thing an upper crust Conservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Yikes! Fr. Hunwicke went there (the “h” word!) !


6 posted on 05/20/2017 5:47:07 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ. ~~~~ Appeasing evil is cowardice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

This might suggest that Bergoglio is saying that the New Covenant is either Islam that or God is simply throwing in the towel.


7 posted on 05/20/2017 5:58:52 PM PDT by arthurus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: arthurus

Nah. He’s just an old hippie. “If it feels good to you, do it!”


8 posted on 05/20/2017 7:19:40 PM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

One must distinguish between the sin of heresy and the crime of heresy.

A Pope does not lose his office by falling into the sin of heresy.


9 posted on 05/20/2017 8:35:16 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (https://youtu.be/IYUYya6bPGw)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dp0622
Who gives a ####.

Catholics are bound to give testimony to Truth, in season and out.

10 posted on 05/20/2017 8:49:29 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: dp0622

The popes in the Middle Ages were actually Catholic despite any shortcomings, sins, etc. None were manifest heretics.


11 posted on 05/21/2017 9:24:44 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: piusv
The popes in the Middle Ages were actually Catholic despite any shortcomings, sins, etc. None were manifest heretics.

Although this certainly depends on how one defines the word "heretic" and the phrase "middle ages", a good case can be made that there is historical precident. Two good articles on the topic are below. The second article provides the best description of the current situation I have read.

James Schall: On Heretical Popes

Edward Feser: Denial flows into the Tiber

12 posted on 05/21/2017 9:35:13 AM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
The question of whether there has ever been a heretic pope was discussed at Vatican I in 1870... and conclusion was that there never was one.

In a conference given after his return from the council, Archbishop John Baptist Purcell of Cincinnati related the following:

The question was also raised by a Cardinal, “What is to be done with the Pope if he becomes a heretic?” It was answered that there has never been such a case; the Council of Bishops could depose him for heresy, for from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church. The Church would not be, for a moment, obliged to listen to him when he begins to teach a doctrine the Church knows to be a false doctrine, and he would cease to be Pope, being deposed by God Himself.

The examples that are often provided to prove that a pope can be a manifest, public heretic and still retain his office as pope are wrong. Sadly, it is often Catholics who use these examples as proof that such a manifest heretic can still be pope.

13 posted on 05/21/2017 10:51:12 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson