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To: omegatoo; Elsie; ealgeone; Mark17; metmom; daniel1212
Thanks, it’s good to know that both you and ealgeone agree that praying to saints, including Blessed Mary, is entirely acceptable and based on scripture.

Only that's not what they said. Nice try, though!

Tell me, why do you or does anyone pray to deceased "saints" and especially Mary? I come from a Roman Catholic background and I remember well being given prayers (the Our Father, the Hail Mary, especially) as penance to do after confession. I always wondered how saying prayers could be seen as adequate "punishment" for sins we committed and then confessed. Yet, from a young age I didn't pray very much at all TO dead saints because I always thought praying directly to God was better (it was just an instinctive act - no one told me to do or not do so). So, what do you see as the benefit of praying to saints and Mary to petition God for you when you know you can go to Him directly?

I agree that we are encouraged to pray for each other in Scripture but I see that as more about having a stake in the ministries and lives of fellow believers. On the other hand, praying to those who are already dead presumes they first of all can hear our prayers - even THOUGHT prayers - and, secondly, that there is some intrinsic value in their prayers over those of other Christians - like everyday variety Christians are less effective or something. Granted, James tells us the effectual, fervent prayers of righteous people avails much, but I have seen fervent prayers to Mary come back unanswered. At least with people we talk to here, we can interact and share in the blessings of answered, or unanswered, prayers. There's NO way we can know our prayers to the dead are even heard much less that they avail at anything. Even when it does seem that prayers to saints get results, more often than not, it's the saint that gets the praise and glory and not God. That is a huge flashing sign to me.

I know this thread was posted to try to prove early Christians prayed to Mary after her death and for some it is adequate proof but for others it didn't prove anything other than extra-biblical rites and doctrines were brought into practice in the community centuries after the last Apostle died. We don't have solid proof that they either taught believers to do this or encouraged it. Is it possible that this is one of those "disputable matters" and not something that should divide fellow Christians or cause bitterness, anger and dissension? I guess what I'm trying to say is that non-Catholic Christians have genuine reasons why we don't practice prayers to anyone other than God. Can Catholics and Orthodox believers accept that or must we ALL march to the same drummer on this point?

272 posted on 04/30/2017 9:28:47 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
We don't have solid proof that they either taught believers to do this or encouraged it.

Ya want flimsy proof instead?


If the 'church' that Christ started is so good and true; then WHY does 'Mary' have to show up on Earth from time to time to deliver a 'message'?

275 posted on 05/01/2017 2:05:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums

Do novenas EVER fail?


276 posted on 05/01/2017 2:05:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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