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To: BlueDragon
Ok, how about yourself [af_vet_1981] do something of the same thing (a not unreasonable request, since you had just demanded from another something similar) and show from scripture where the passage you cited that included Jesus Christ's own mention of such place as "Abraham's bosum" ---should be interchangeably considered that he was talking about Heaven ---instead of Abraham's bosum, at that time anyway, be some place of Sheol?



9 posted on 4/29/2017, 11:52:36 AM by aMorePerfectUnion
2. No Jewish or Christian prayer is ever recorded in Scripture that addresses anyone but God.
    Do you agree that
  1. aMorePerfectUnion's assertion in post 9, item 2 was false ?
  2. The beggar Lazarus, the unnamed rich man, and "Father Abraham" were real men and not a fable concocted for the Pharisees ?
  3. Abraham is a departed saint ?

130 posted on 04/30/2017 5:02:11 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981; aMorePerfectUnion
You inquired of me;

Regardless of any answer I could supply, it remains that; the passage of NT scripture you had cited in post #61 does not in anyway falsify the statement -- which statement was;

You have not supplied Scripture that establishes prayer to anyone in Heaven ---other than God, Himself--- be demonstrated, or recommended.

If you truly expect further answers, from myself, to questions you pose, you simply first must provide acknowledgment that your own repeated assertion regarding the passage of scripture wherein Jesus spoke of "the rich man and Lazarus", was not speaking towards Abraham having AT THAT TIME been in Heaven --- even according to Catechism of the Catholic Church, at 633.

Here it is again, since you seemed to have either skipped over it, or else not understood the crucial tangible elements;

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

It could also be noted here that in the above, the passage you have been leaning upon was referred to as "the parable of the poor man Lazarus".

The setting of that parable, when Jesus himself was narrating and relating the story --was Sheol-- which is absolutely not Heaven. Thus, your own characterization of the passage --- that it establishes from scripture that prayers may be directed to anyone in Heaven, other than God Himself -- fails. Abraham was not considered to have been in Heaven at the time, place and setting of the parable. That Abraham may now be "in Heaven"(?) is neither here nor there, for in setting of that parable, Abraham was not being spoken of as if he then were in Heaven.

Again, the question I posed to you (that you italicized and repeated back to me) was something of an add-on to what I had written about and hoped to draw your attention to previously, and have been veritably forced to belabor.

Here again that "add-on" question, slightly reworded this time around;

Show from scripture where the passage you cited that included Jesus Christ's own mention of such place as "Abraham's bosum" ---should be interchangeably considered that he was talking about Heaven, instead of himself talking about what CCC 633 references as the abode of the dead, and an abode not to be confused with "Heaven".

156 posted on 04/30/2017 9:59:34 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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