Agreed.
Let ROME bestow that title on a man; instead.
The hypocracy is pungent in this one.
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Posted on 03/13/2017 8:58:52 AM PDT by ebb tide
I was correcting Ebb Tide and answering your question.
I'll bet you don't...
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Christ will be glad to hear of your OPINION of His words!
Absolutely!
Faith Alone.
Once saved, always saved.
Predestination.
Please pick (only) one to base your next argument upon.
Yes I do.
Augustine was never Pope, and his writings do not comprise Catholic theology.
What HE thinks is not that important.
What IS important is what ROME teaches about it...
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
I have no obligation to comply with your demands.
I have no obligation to comply with your demands.
Your interpretation is LAME!
“Matthew 23:8-10
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all students. 9 And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah.”
Clearly the message is that the disciples should not seek titles for themselves, or to elevate their stature.
There are 230 uses of the term “father” in the Gospels and only half refer to God.
So, clearly the admonition is not regarding the term “father”.
I 'interpreted' nothing.
.
Even a FOOL can figger THIS out!
It NEEDS no 'interpretation' by someone smarter than me.
Agreed.
Let ROME bestow that title on a man; instead.
The hypocracy is pungent in this one.
Hostility towards Her is more of a Protestant thing and your choice, of course, but if Her Son wants love for Her, not hostility, then good luck with that.
Adding to that hostility and spreading it around is probably poor long-term planning, based upon what I've read so far.
Much of what is attributed to Her comes to us via the supernatural encounters others have had with Her since the books of the Bible were written.
Whatever She is now, a large percentage of Christianity accepts both Her divinity and Her mission, along with the supernatural ways through which we've come to know Her.
One thing I've noticed about Protestants in particular is their discomfort with the supernatural, including many of the miracles in the Bible and certainly anything supernatural since the Bible was written and condensed.
Supernatural and the rational mind have issues with each other, so it's understandable from that point of view.
Belief in the supernatural is easy for me, though, and miracles in and out of the Bible are also easy for me to accept and believe.
It's other people's lack of acceptance or belief that is hard for me to understand, especially among Christians professing belief in a supernatural Trinitarian God.
It's probably just me, though, as I've been out of cal for a very long time now, certainly since childhood.
On a similar page, one phrase I've encountered that gave me and still gives me some difficulty is "gods by participation".
For example:
do you want to be a perfect child of God? in other words, do you want to be called, "gods by participation"? then step into the path of virtues; work for your salvation and do not look back; I am ready to deify you and write your name in the book of life;Yep, there are lots and lots of things I don't understand...and then what about Mary?
Catholics consider him a doctor of the church and hang a lot on his writings.
Mary has divine?? You illustrate why Christians say Catholics worship Mary.
The various prophecies regarding the Church, including the Final Pope prophecy, were intriguing enough, and then Pope Francis comes along. Yikes!
I have to admit, my skepticism for such things didn't put up much of a fight after that, not given the way in which we have and who we have with this Pope called Francis.
And don't get me started on the Vatican's Nervi Audience Hall, that freaky snake's head building inside Vatican city. And what about that sculpture?? Wtf, over?!?
The Church, not unlike the USA, appears to have been fundamentally transformed from the inside, which if true fulfills prophecy, perhaps even the mysterious third secret of Fatima.
Beyond that, I don't know.
“a lot of” does not equal “all”.
“8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all students. 9 And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah.”
And how do you apply the related admonitions regarding “teacher” and “instructor”?
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