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To: heterosupremacist

John19:40
40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

John 19:40
Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

The Kjv says clothes, meaning more than one, the NIV says strips of linen.

Which indicates the one cloth maybe a fake.

1 Cor 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

The picture shows Jesus as having long hair, which is another indication that it must be a man made icon.

I believe the so called shroud of turin is man made and it was not Jesus who made it.


160 posted on 03/07/2017 10:35:48 AM PST by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: ravenwolf
John19:40
40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

John 19:40
Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

The Kjv says clothes, meaning more than one, the NIV says strips of linen.

Your problems are 1> You are making your judgements on the poorest translations of the original Greek, although one of the most poetic, of the Bible, the King James Bible. The English words are not used in those passages do not translate the Greek reasonably well. 2> You have no knowledge of what the Jewish burial customs were in the 1st Century and earlier. . . and it was NOT swaddling in a bunch of bandages. The burial customs were written in the Mishnah and Talmud.

The fact is also that the women who were going to the tomb early on Sunday morning were going there to finish washing and anointing Jesus' body, a job which had gone unfinished by the men who had been rushed by the impinging sundown on Friday which started the Sabbath which goes from sundown to sundown on Saturday. They had no time to finish the burial properly.

These men, being proper observant Jews, had to be ritually clean before the sun finished going below the horizon and could do NO WORK after the last gleam of light left the sky.

In addition, there would be some "strips" of cloth used. According to the Mishnah, these strips are used under Jewish custom to bind the legs and arms to prevent them from flopping akimbo. The Jews tied either small ropes or strips of cloth around the arms and legs to prevent the limbs from flopping after rigor mortis passed. They also tied the jaw shut and placed something on the eyes to keep them closed. The minimum requirement for burial aside from this was a cloth to cover the face, but it could be as large as the family could afford and cover the entire body as well. A Greek "syndon" is literally a sheet, also sometimes called a sail. Many translations of the Bible accurately translate the Greek stating that Joseph of Arimathea purchased a "fine linen syndon" as a "fine linen sheet" as part of the grave clothes.

Contemporaneous writings indicate that poorer people often purchased used sails for shrouds. Others would use an unrolled sudarium, a sweat cloth, to just cover the face, and some ropes or twine to tie the limbs.

Windings, bandage type wrappings were not used in Jewish burials because the religious traditions intentions were that the body was meant to rot away until just bones were left. A year later, the family would return, collect the bones and throw them into a central ossuary in the family tomb with the rest of the ancestors' bones. The niche in which the body had lain would be then available for the next family member who dies. Having the body tangled with a mess of rotting cloth bandages ala Egyptian mummies would not lend itself well to this ritual procedure.

Some wealthy 1st Century Jewish families had adopted the Roman practice of having individual ossuary boxes which would hold the bones of a single individual. . . but that was an expensive ostentatious affectation very few could afford. It was also something that was frowned upon by the Sanhedrin as completely nontraditional. This is one of the strongest arguments against the authenticity of the Ossuary box of "James, the brother of Jesus", in addition to the fact that the "brother of Jeshua" inscription being an obvious later addition probably added to increase value. Jesus' family would not have been wealthy enough to have purchased an individual ossuary box for James.

Returning to the Jewish burial practices, there would have been strips of cloth to bind the limbs, a face cloth to go "around the face" to bind the jaw closed, and finally either a cloth to cover the face or the entire body. In addition, in the case or a violent death, anything that had blood stains from that death was supposed to be buried with the body, if at all possible, because Jewish belief was that "life is in the blood."

Incidentally, cloth was extremely expensive in the 1st through 18th Century because it represented a lot of man hours to make. There was no machine made cloth. All cloth was individually woven from indivdually spun threads, which had been individually grown or shorn from animals individually. Every yard represented lots of labor. The linens in an estate were covered in the wills of the wealthy because they represented a good portion of the value of the estate.

The amount of cloth in the Shroud probably represented two or three persons' skilled work for a month. It was not cheap to buy. Burying cloth with a dead body was not a minor expense and it was not a trivial thing to do. That was why the Roman Soldier were gambling for Jesus' clothing at the crucifixion: even if blood stained it was valuable!

166 posted on 03/07/2017 2:01:14 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: ravenwolf
"The KJV says clothes, meaning more than one, the NIV says strips of linen. Which indicates the one cloth maybe a fake." Huh? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? The picture shows Jesus as having long hair, which is another indication that it must be a man made icon. Huh? Jesus lived as a desert traveler for his last three years on earth, maybe he never ran across a barber? I believe the so called shroud of turin is man made and it was not Jesus who made it. Believe what you will. The preponderance of evidence could possibly make you reconsider.
171 posted on 03/07/2017 5:24:10 PM PST by heterosupremacist (Domine Iesu Christe, Filius Dei, miserere me peccatorem!)
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