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To: daniel1212; Elsie

If Jewish FReepers are on a Christian thread, or a neutral thread where Christianity comes us, we are careful not to offend.

Coming onto a thread that is wholly Jewish and counting the heads of us heathens to convert is not respectful.

And Daniel, no one said such an offensive thing as you imply. But you did deliberately say things to offend us.

We love and respect the same Gd. We are all a part of Free Republic. We’ve gone these last two decades without comparing and contrasting theologies because it’s just not respectful. We are good with your theology. Our rabbis teach us that Christianity is perfect for Christians. We love you. Let’s let the rest go.


54 posted on 01/01/2017 9:54:57 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle

Didn’t Hashem tell Moishe to kill someone right on the spot for gathering wood on Shabbat?


58 posted on 01/01/2017 12:31:44 PM PST by Read Write Repeat
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To: Yaelle; daniel1212; Read Write Repeat; Elsie

Teaching conversion to Jesus is essential to being Christian. It is a matter of obedience to the Son of God. We have no choice. If you find it inherently disrespectful, that suggests you do not understand the dynamic of our faith. It can be a matter of great respect and love for our fellow travelers that we wish them to experience forgiveness in Jesus and the power to live resurrected lives. But even if we did not see the good and love of teaching the Gospel, we would still be obligated to do it, because we are under command to do so. If you believe our obedience to this command is disrespect, then do not attribute that disrespect to us. We are just the messengers.

Peace,

SR

PS, if you or anyone else wants to post in the Religion Forum with no outsider input to the post, you need to post it as a caucus thread. Otherwise, by forum rules, everything is open to challenge, within the bounds of civility, of course.


61 posted on 01/01/2017 1:52:32 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Yaelle
Coming onto a thread that is wholly Jewish and counting the heads of us heathens to convert is not respectful.

Sorry; but I didn't see any JEWISH CAUCUS label when I got here.







Ezekiel 9:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, “Bring near those who are appointed to execute judgment on the city, each with a weapon in his hand.” And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.

Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.

 

An interesting word; mark.


 
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(4) Set a mark upon the foreheads.—The word for mark is literally a Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. This, in many of the ancient alphabets, and especially in that in use among the Hebrews up to this time, and long retained upon their coins, was in the form of a cross—X or +. Much stress was laid upon this use of the sign of the cross as the mark for the Divine mercy by the older Christian writers, Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, and Jerome. This marking was done, it is true, in vision, but the symbolism is taken from such passages as Genesis 4:15; Exodus 12:7; Exodus 12:13; Exodus 28:36; and it is used several times in the Apocalypse (Ezekiel 7:3; Ezekiel 9:4; Ezekiel 14:1). Such marks may be necessary for the guidance of the angelic executors of God’s commands, and at all events, the symbolism is of value to the human mind. It is with reference to such Scriptural instances of marking, doubtless, that the Church has provided for the signing of the baptized with the sign of the cross. It is to be observed here that the distinction of the marking has reference wholly and only to character. No regard is paid to birth or position; they and they only are marked who mourned for the prevailing sinfulness, and kept themselves apart from it.
 
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
A mark - literally, "Tau," the name of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The old form of the letter was that of a cross. The Jews have interpreted this sign variously, some considering that "Tau," being the last of the Hebrew letters, and so closing the alphabet, denoted completeness, and thus the mark indicated the completeness of the sorrow for sin in those upon whom it was placed. Others again observed that "Tau" was the first letter of Torah ("the Law") and that the foreheads were marked as of men obedient to the Law. Christians, noting the resemblance of this letter in its most ancient form to a cross, have seen herein a reference to the cross with which Christians were signed. The custom for pagan gods and their votaries to bear certain marks furnishes instances, in which God was pleased to employ symbolism, generally in use, to express higher and more divine truth. The sign of the cross in baptism is an outward sign of the designation of God's elect, who at the last day shall be exempted from the destruction of the ungodly Matthew 24:22, Matthew 24:31.

 

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
a mark—literally, the Hebrew letter Tau, the last in the alphabet, used as a mark ("my sign," Job 31:35, Margin); literally, Tau; originally written in the form of a cross, which Tertullian explains as referring to the badge and only means of salvation, the cross of Christ. But nowhere in Scripture are the words which are now employed as names of letters used to denote the letters themselves or their figures [Vitringa]. The noun here is cognate to the verb, "mark a mark." So in Re 7:3 no particular mark is specified. We seal what we wish to guard securely. When all things else on earth are confounded, God will secure His people from the common ruin. God gives the first charge as to their safety before He orders the punishment of the rest (Ps 31:20; Isa 26:20, 21). So in the case of Lot and Sodom (Ge 19:22); also the Egyptian first-born were not slain till Israel had time to sprinkle the blood-mark, ensuring their safety (compare Re 7:3; Am 9:9). So the early Christians had Pella provided as a refuge for them, before the destruction of Jerusalem.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

through the midst of Jerusalem; the city the six men had the charge over or against, Ezekiel 9:1;

and set a mark upon the foreheads; not the Hebrew letter as some say, because in the form of a cross, and so signifying salvation by the cross of Christ; for this letter has no such form, neither in the characters used by the Jews, nor by the Samaritans, at least in the present character; though Origen and Jerom on the place say that the letter "tau" had the form of a cross in the letters the Samaritans used in their time; and this is defended by Walton (t), who observes, that Azariah in his Hebrew alphabet gives a double figure, one like that which is in present use, and another in the form of a cross, called St. Andrew's cross, and as it appears in some shekels; and in the Vatican alphabet, which Angelus E Roccha published, the last letter has the form of a cross; as have the Ethiopic and Coptic alphabets, which, it is certain, sprung from the ancient Hebrew; and so Montfaucon says (u), in some Samaritan coins, the letter "thau" has the form of a cross; which, if Scaliger had met with, he says he would never have opposed the testimonies of Origen and Jerom; though, after all, it seems to be no other than the form of the Greek "x"; and so the Talmudists say (w) the high priest, was anointed on his forehead in the same form: some think this letter was the mark, because it is the first letter of the word "the law"; as if it pointed out such who were obedient to it; or of the word "thou shall live". It is a Rabbinical fancy, mentioned by Kimchi (x), that Gabriel had orders to write the letter in ink upon the foreheads of the righteous, and in blood upon the foreheads of the wicked; in the one it signified "thou shall live", and in the other "thou shall die"; but, as Calvin observes, rather, if this letter could be thought to be meant, the reason of it was, because it is the last letter of the alphabet; and so may signify, that the Lord's people marked with it are the last among men, or the faith of the world; or that such who persevere to the end shall be saved: but the word signifies, not a letter, but a mark or sign; and so it is interpreted in the Septuagint version, and by the Targum, Jarchi, Kimchi, and others; and denotes the distinction the Lord had made by his grace between them and others; and now by his power and providence in the protection of them; for the, Lord knows them that are his, and will preserve them. The allusion is either to the marking of servants in their foreheads, by which they were known who they belonged to, Revelation 7:3; or to the sprinkling of the posts of the Israelites' houses with blood, when the firstborn of Egypt were destroyed, Exodus 12:22; of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof; the abominations were those abominable idolatries mentioned in the preceding chapter, and those dreadful immoralities hinted at in Ezekiel 9:9; all which were grieving and distressing to godly minds, because they were contrary to the nature and will of God; transgressions, of his righteous law; and on account of which his name was dishonoured, and his ways blasphemed and evil spoken of; for these they sighed and groaned in private, and mourned and lamented in public; bearing their testimony against them with bitter expressions of grief and sorrow, by groans, words, and tears; and such as these are taken notice of by the Lord; he comforts those that mourn in Zion, and preserves them.

 
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
4. set a mark] The word is Tav, the last letter of the alphabet, the old form of which was a cross. The term is used here as in Job 31:35, of a mark in general, though perhaps the Tav or cross was the simplest form the mark could take. The passage is imitated, Revelation 7, though the mark there is the name of God. All who mourned over the abominations done in Jerusalem were to be thus sealed and spared.
 
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 4. - Set a mark upon the foreheads, etc. The command reminds us of that given to the destroying angel in Exodus 12:13, and has its earlier and later analogues in the mark set upon Cain (Genesis 4:15), and in the "sealing" of the servants of God in Revelation 7:3. Here, as in the last example, the mark is set, not on the lintels of the doorposts, but upon the "foreheads" of the men. And the mark is the letter tau, in old Hebrew, that of a cross + , and like the "mark" of mediaeval and (in the case of the illiterate) of modern usage, seems to have been used as a signature, and is rightly so translated in the Revised Version of Job 31:35. Jewish writers have accounted for its being thus used, either

(1) from its being the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and thus denoting completeness, or

(2) from its being the first letter of the word thorah (Law); or

(3) from its standing in the same position in the Hebrew word for "thou shalt live." Christian writers (Origen, in loc.; Tertullian, 'Adv. Marcion,' 3:22) have not unnaturally seen in it a quasi-prophetic reference to the sign of the cross as used by Christians, and it is possible that the use of that sign in baptism may have originated in this passage. That was to be the sign of the elect of God in the midst of a world lying in wickedness. Possibly in older as in later forms of idolatry (as eg. in the cultus of Mithras, Vishnu, Sehiva), the votaries of this or that deity may have been distinguished by some outward note of this kind; but of this, though suggested by Currey, I do not find any evidence. It is clear, however, that there could be no anticipation of the Christian symbolism in the minds of Ezeldel or of his hearers. The "mark" was to be placed on all who were still faithful to the worship of their fathers, though they could show their faithfulness only by lamentation of the national apostasy. Such, of course, were Jeremiah, and Baruch, and Ahikam, and Shaphan, and Gedaliah, and others, and such as these Ezekiel may have had present in his thoughts. Against all others (ver. 5) they were sent forth with unsparing severity.
 
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ezekiel/9-4.htm

 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hebrew_alphabet
 
Letter[7] Name Scripts
Hebrew Ancestral Related
Cursive Rashi Braille[8] Hieroglyphic base
of Proto-Sinaitic
(assumed)
Proto-Sinaitic
(reconstructed)[citation needed]
Phoenician Paleo-Hebrew Aramaic Greek Latin Cyrillic Arabic
 
 
         Tav           Hebrew letter Taf handwriting.svg Hebrew letter Taf Rashi.png ⠹ (braille pattern dots-1456) ⠳ (braille pattern dots-1256)          unknown                       Tof                             Taw              Tof          Taw.svg       Ττ          Tt      Тт     ﺗ ﺕ

68 posted on 01/01/2017 2:58:32 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Yaelle
But you did deliberately say things to offend us.

I thought all the snowflakes had melted by now!

69 posted on 01/01/2017 2:59:09 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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