Will Orthodox Rabbis Recognize My Conservative Conversion? Rabbi Tovia Singer Responds

YouTube ^ | Dec 27, 2016 | Rabbi Tovia Singer

[Read Write Repeat]

Rabbi Tovia Singer responds to a former Arab Muslim woman regarding her conversion to Conservative Judaism.

[Springfield Reformer]

Teaching conversion to Jesus is essential to being Christian. It is a matter of obedience to the Son of God. We have no choice. If you find it inherently disrespectful, that suggests you do not understand the dynamic of our faith. It can be a matter of great respect and love for our fellow travelers that we wish them to experience forgiveness in Jesus and the power to live resurrected lives. But even if we did not see the good and love of teaching the Gospel, we would still be obligated to do it, because we are under command to do so. If you believe our obedience to this command is disrespect, then do not attribute that disrespect to us. We are just the messengers.

Peace,

SR

PS, if you or anyone else wants to post in the Religion Forum with no outsider input to the post, you need to post it as a caucus thread. Otherwise, by forum rules, everything is open to challenge, within the bounds of civility, of course.

[daniel1212]

Thanks for your input.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yeah, do you really think anyone ever converted after receiving a smart-ass internet post about their religious faith?

[Read Write Repeat]

Jews are commanded by Hashem to know, praise, and fear Hashem within our direct relationship because that is the Law.

We don’t forcibly convert people because free will is one of the very first things anyone opening a Hebrew bible encounters.

We believe all righteous Gentiles have a place in the World to Come. Jews want to bring the Heavens down to this world.

We’re also responsible for loving our enemies and self-defense.

The topic of this thread is strictly related to the differences between conversion protocols of the various Jewish movements. If you have any specific questions on that topic, I’m sure many will be happy to answer them.

[daniel1212]

I hate spellcheck

With my stiff fingers and tendency to overlook things i thank God for it. (And it could have also helped you to see "Cheistian" ministers in post 11)

[daniel1212]

Jews are commanded by Hashem to know, praise, and fear Hashem within our direct relationship because that is the Law.

Which according to your apologist means that Christ was a false Messiah and Christians testimonies are like those resulting from demonic deception.

The topic of this thread is strictly related to the differences between conversion protocols of the various Jewish movements.

Says who? Rather, differences between conversion protocols of the various Jewish movements makes the interpretive basis for them pertinent, and the beliefs they hold as coming from that. And when you repeatedly choose (owner closed one) to post provocative videos of a man who (on that basis) zealously attacks the Christian faith then you are making his interpretive veracity an issue, and thus countering material relating to that is fitting. As are asking you questions about what you else believe.

And unless you are in a caucus thread, then a open forum means such can take place.("Open threads are in a town square format... “Open” RF debate is often contentious. ") But for some reason while even links to the likes of BibleBelievers.com cannot be posted, you not only can get away with articles to the blatantly anti-Christian Singer, but even links to such as challenge him are apparently disallowed.

Makes me wonder...

[faithhopecharity]

I have hated spellcheck since it had us mail out a letter with the concluding line,

...so you are therefore Ordered to Immediately Cease and Decease!”

instead of ........desist

-———spell check Suks!

[Elsie]

Coming onto a thread that is wholly Jewish and counting the heads of us heathens to convert is not respectful.

Sorry; but I didn't see any JEWISH CAUCUS label when I got here.

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Ezekiel 9:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

1 Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, “Bring near those who are appointed to execute judgment on the city, each with a weapon in his hand.” ² And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.

³ Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side ⁴ and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

 

An interesting word; mark.

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Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(4) Set a mark upon the foreheads.—The word for mark is literally a Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. This, in many of the ancient alphabets, and especially in that in use among the Hebrews up to this time, and long retained upon their coins, was in the form of a cross—X or +. Much stress was laid upon this use of the sign of the cross as the mark for the Divine mercy by the older Christian writers, Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, and Jerome. This marking was done, it is true, in vision, but the symbolism is taken from such passages as Genesis 4:15; Exodus 12:7; Exodus 12:13; Exodus 28:36; and it is used several times in the Apocalypse (Ezekiel 7:3; Ezekiel 9:4; Ezekiel 14:1). Such marks may be necessary for the guidance of the angelic executors of God’s commands, and at all events, the symbolism is of value to the human mind. It is with reference to such Scriptural instances of marking, doubtless, that the Church has provided for the signing of the baptized with the sign of the cross. It is to be observed here that the distinction of the marking has reference wholly and only to character. No regard is paid to birth or position; they and they only are marked who mourned for the prevailing sinfulness, and kept themselves apart from it.

 

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

A mark - literally, "Tau," the name of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The old form of the letter was that of a cross. The Jews have interpreted this sign variously, some considering that "Tau," being the last of the Hebrew letters, and so closing the alphabet, denoted completeness, and thus the mark indicated the completeness of the sorrow for sin in those upon whom it was placed. Others again observed that "Tau" was the first letter of Torah ("the Law") and that the foreheads were marked as of men obedient to the Law. Christians, noting the resemblance of this letter in its most ancient form to a cross, have seen herein a reference to the cross with which Christians were signed. The custom for pagan gods and their votaries to bear certain marks furnishes instances, in which God was pleased to employ symbolism, generally in use, to express higher and more divine truth. The sign of the cross in baptism is an outward sign of the designation of God's elect, who at the last day shall be exempted from the destruction of the ungodly Matthew 24:22, Matthew 24:31.

 

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

a mark—literally, the Hebrew letter Tau, the last in the alphabet, used as a mark ("my sign," Job 31:35, Margin); literally, Tau; originally written in the form of a cross, which Tertullian explains as referring to the badge and only means of salvation, the cross of Christ. But nowhere in Scripture are the words which are now employed as names of letters used to denote the letters themselves or their figures [Vitringa]. The noun here is cognate to the verb, "mark a mark." So in Re 7:3 no particular mark is specified. We seal what we wish to guard securely. When all things else on earth are confounded, God will secure His people from the common ruin. God gives the first charge as to their safety before He orders the punishment of the rest (Ps 31:20; Isa 26:20, 21). So in the case of Lot and Sodom (Ge 19:22); also the Egyptian first-born were not slain till Israel had time to sprinkle the blood-mark, ensuring their safety (compare Re 7:3; Am 9:9). So the early Christians had Pella provided as a refuge for them, before the destruction of Jerusalem.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

through the midst of Jerusalem; the city the six men had the charge over or against, Ezekiel 9:1;

and set a mark upon the foreheads; not the Hebrew letter as some say, because in the form of a cross, and so signifying salvation by the cross of Christ; for this letter has no such form, neither in the characters used by the Jews, nor by the Samaritans, at least in the present character; though Origen and Jerom on the place say that the letter "tau" had the form of a cross in the letters the Samaritans used in their time; and this is defended by Walton (t), who observes, that Azariah in his Hebrew alphabet gives a double figure, one like that which is in present use, and another in the form of a cross, called St. Andrew's cross, and as it appears in some shekels; and in the Vatican alphabet, which Angelus E Roccha published, the last letter has the form of a cross; as have the Ethiopic and Coptic alphabets, which, it is certain, sprung from the ancient Hebrew; and so Montfaucon says (u), in some Samaritan coins, the letter "thau" has the form of a cross; which, if Scaliger had met with, he says he would never have opposed the testimonies of Origen and Jerom; though, after all, it seems to be no other than the form of the Greek "x"; and so the Talmudists say (w) the high priest, was anointed on his forehead in the same form: some think this letter was the mark, because it is the first letter of the word "the law"; as if it pointed out such who were obedient to it; or of the word "thou shall live". It is a Rabbinical fancy, mentioned by Kimchi (x), that Gabriel had orders to write the letter in ink upon the foreheads of the righteous, and in blood upon the foreheads of the wicked; in the one it signified "thou shall live", and in the other "thou shall die"; but, as Calvin observes, rather, if this letter could be thought to be meant, the reason of it was, because it is the last letter of the alphabet; and so may signify, that the Lord's people marked with it are the last among men, or the faith of the world; or that such who persevere to the end shall be saved: but the word signifies, not a letter, but a mark or sign; and so it is interpreted in the Septuagint version, and by the Targum, Jarchi, Kimchi, and others; and denotes the distinction the Lord had made by his grace between them and others; and now by his power and providence in the protection of them; for the, Lord knows them that are his, and will preserve them. The allusion is either to the marking of servants in their foreheads, by which they were known who they belonged to, Revelation 7:3; or to the sprinkling of the posts of the Israelites' houses with blood, when the firstborn of Egypt were destroyed, Exodus 12:22; of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof; the abominations were those abominable idolatries mentioned in the preceding chapter, and those dreadful immoralities hinted at in Ezekiel 9:9; all which were grieving and distressing to godly minds, because they were contrary to the nature and will of God; transgressions, of his righteous law; and on account of which his name was dishonoured, and his ways blasphemed and evil spoken of; for these they sighed and groaned in private, and mourned and lamented in public; bearing their testimony against them with bitter expressions of grief and sorrow, by groans, words, and tears; and such as these are taken notice of by the Lord; he comforts those that mourn in Zion, and preserves them.

 

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

4. set a mark] The word is Tav, the last letter of the alphabet, the old form of which was a cross. The term is used here as in Job 31:35, of a mark in general, though perhaps the Tav or cross was the simplest form the mark could take. The passage is imitated, Revelation 7, though the mark there is the name of God. All who mourned over the abominations done in Jerusalem were to be thus sealed and spared.

 

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 4. - Set a mark upon the foreheads, etc. The command reminds us of that given to the destroying angel in Exodus 12:13, and has its earlier and later analogues in the mark set upon Cain (Genesis 4:15), and in the "sealing" of the servants of God in Revelation 7:3. Here, as in the last example, the mark is set, not on the lintels of the doorposts, but upon the "foreheads" of the men. And the mark is the letter tau, in old Hebrew, that of a cross + , and like the "mark" of mediaeval and (in the case of the illiterate) of modern usage, seems to have been used as a signature, and is rightly so translated in the Revised Version of Job 31:35. Jewish writers have accounted for its being thus used, either

(1) from its being the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and thus denoting completeness, or

(2) from its being the first letter of the word thorah (Law); or

(3) from its standing in the same position in the Hebrew word for "thou shalt live." Christian writers (Origen, in loc.; Tertullian, 'Adv. Marcion,' 3:22) have not unnaturally seen in it a quasi-prophetic reference to the sign of the cross as used by Christians, and it is possible that the use of that sign in baptism may have originated in this passage. That was to be the sign of the elect of God in the midst of a world lying in wickedness. Possibly in older as in later forms of idolatry (as eg. in the cultus of Mithras, Vishnu, Sehiva), the votaries of this or that deity may have been distinguished by some outward note of this kind; but of this, though suggested by Currey, I do not find any evidence. It is clear, however, that there could be no anticipation of the Christian symbolism in the minds of Ezeldel or of his hearers. The "mark" was to be placed on all who were still faithful to the worship of their fathers, though they could show their faithfulness only by lamentation of the national apostasy. Such, of course, were Jeremiah, and Baruch, and Ahikam, and Shaphan, and Gedaliah, and others, and such as these Ezekiel may have had present in his thoughts. Against all others (ver. 5) they were sent forth with unsparing severity.

 

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ezekiel/9-4.htm

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hebrew_alphabet

 

Letter[7]		Name	Scripts
			Hebrew						Ancestral					Related
			Cursive		Rashi		Braille[8]		Hieroglyphic base of Proto-Sinaitic (assumed)	Proto-Sinaitic (reconstructed)[citation needed]	Phoenician	Paleo-Hebrew	Aramaic	Greek	Latin	Cyrillic	Arabic

 

 

Tav

unknown

Ττ

Tt

Тт

ﺗ ﺕ

[Elsie]

But you did deliberately say things to offend us.

I thought all the snowflakes had melted by now!

[Elsie]

Read post #50 and list all the facts about Hashem using the TaNaKh only. Pretend it’s Judgement Day and this is the pop quiz.

I have to do the research of the Teacher?

[Elsie]

Yeah, do you really think anyone ever converted after receiving a smart-ass internet post about their religious faith?

Probably; if they are pissed off enough to research a rebuttal and run into DOUBT along the way.

[Elsie]

We believe all righteous Gentiles have a place in the World to Come.

I think I know what a Gentile is (sorry; Mormons), but what is a RIGHTEOUS one?

And what PLACE might they occupy??

[Elsie]

We believe all righteous Gentiles have a place in the World to Come.

So do Mormons - kinda...

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HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.                                                               (Where the Father lives.  Only about 15% of Mormons have a VALID TR card.)

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.     (Where approximately 85% 0f Mormons will end up)

Telestial - where unbelievers go

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The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 76

 

 92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
 93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
 94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
 95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

 

 

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.   https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng  (click view more) 

 

 

 

[Zionist Conspirator]

We believe all righteous Gentiles have a place in the World to Come.

True, but this classification is not as expansive as most have come to believe it to be.

The "righteous of the nations" (chasidei-'ummot-ha`olam) actually refers to non-Jews who have rejected all false religions and adhere to the Noachide Laws alone, and who keep all of them in all their details or else who achieve perfect repentance.

The notion that the Torah teaches that "all good people regardless of religion" have a place in the World to Come is liberal universalist nonsense.

[daniel1212]

I have hated spellcheck since it had us mail out a letter with the concluding line, ...so you are therefore Ordered to Immediately Cease and Decease!” instead of ........desist

No that's funny! Unlike the unwarranted deletions here.

[faithhopecharity]

Yes ( but it probably wasn’t as funny to its recipient ) smile smile

[Read Write Repeat]

Thank you for the compliment. Not my best work, and that was rushed without any editing or prose polishing. Notice I didn’t do that for profit — I gave it away because we Jews are really big into charity (chessed).

Jews don’t believe in universalism anywhere. Not one bit is in the Torah, Nevi’im, Talmud, etc. Quite the opposite.

Thousands of years ago, Jews were forced to blot the Holy Name from all of our scriptures. This is why we make back up copies, and conceal the original. Jews are real good at hiding because hey, we’re Jews.

Always remember what happened to Pharaoh & Egypt. It’s no joke.

[Read Write Repeat]

There’s an additional three commandments on most US buildings. No one listened to the rabbis and left it at just seven.

So what are the Ten Commandments in order to be considered ‘righteous’?

Several people broke at least one of them since the start of the thread. If Redemption was today and they didn’t repent in time, then...?