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To: vladimir998; MHGinTN; HossB86; daniel1212; metmom
Once these concerns about unity between Jewish and Gentile converts lessened the Church lifted these restrictions. In 1 Corinthians 10 St. Paul speaks about how it is now permissible to eat the flesh of animals sacrificed to idols, warning the Corinthians to only be concerned about causing scandal, rather than any sin or wrongdoing which might be attached to eating the food itself. This clearly shows that the decision of the Council of Jerusalem to avoid certain foods was not doctrinal, but rather a disciplinary one. And no one should forget that other verses show that all foods were made clean in themselves (Mark 7:19; Acts 10:15).

While the flesh of an animal was cleared to eat, the drinking of the blood was not.

However, the flesh of a man nor the blood of a human was never given the ok to consume.

However, the main issue is the concept of the Mass being the same sacrifice as that of the Cross per the Baltimore catechism.

Every mass, another sacrifice contradicting Hebrews. Christ does not come down from Heaven when called by the priest at the mass (O'Brien..Faith of Millions, p256)....He's at the right hand side of the the Father where He will be until the Second Coming.

26For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;

27who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

28For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever. Hebrews 7:26-28.

24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.

26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

28so Christ , will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:24-28

522 posted on 09/16/2016 9:05:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

“While the flesh of an animal was cleared to eat, the drinking of the blood was not.”

That still changes nothing about the fact that the prohibition was lifted.

“However, the flesh of a man nor the blood of a human was never given the ok to consume.”

No one was consuming the flesh of a man nor the blood of a man. The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of the God-man and it is consumed sacramentally and at the express order of God Himself. No law or prohibition is, therefore, violated.

“However, the main issue is the concept of the Mass being the same sacrifice as that of the Cross per the Baltimore catechism.”

No, actually it is not the main issue.

“Every mass, another sacrifice contradicting Hebrews.”

Nope. Hebrews says Jesus gave ONE sacrifice. The Mass is the re-presentation of that ONE sacrifice.

As always, you’re wrong. I’m sure you’ll keep throwing in the kitchen sink - anything to change the topic yet again.


524 posted on 09/16/2016 10:28:18 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: ealgeone; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...


The Eucharist of Catholicism versus the Lord's supper of Scripture in the life and teaching of the NT church in Scripture

Preface:

Roman Catholicism teaches that at the Lord's supper the bread and wine became the "Real Presence," which (though apparently originally an Anglican term) meaning that they were “substantially changed into the true and proper and lifegiving flesh and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord,” being corporeally present whole and entire in His physical "reality.” (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965) Thus the statement, “Consequently, eating and drinking are to be understood of the actual partaking of Christ in person, hence literally.” (Catholic Encyclopedia>The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist) Even though "If you took the consecrated host to a laboratory it would be chemically shown to be bread, not human flesh." (Dwight Longenecker: "Explaining Transubstantiation") The explanation of which unique miracle draws from Aristotelian metaphysics and Neoplatonic.

However, the offering of such is held to be a propitiatory sacrifice for sins at the hands of a special class of sacerdotal priests: “As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.” (CCC 1414) “For the victim is one and the same, the same now offering by the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner alone of offering being different.” (Council of Trent, The Twenty-Second Session)

This ritual sacrifice is taught as being "the source and summit of the Christian life" (CCC 1324) “the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes us live for ever in Jesus Christ," (CCC 1415) "a kind of consummation of the spiritual life, and in a sense the goal of all the sacraments," (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965) through which “the work of our redemption is carried out,” (CCC 1364) with the offering of which being the primary function of her clergy, and around which all else in Catholicism essentially revolves. The Eastern Orthodox likewise state that "the very center of our spiritual lives is the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist. (http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/twopaths.aspx)

And as Jn. 6:53 is taken literally, then it is imagined that by this consumption of “lifegiving flesh and blood” believers thereby obtain life in themselves.

...when the minister says, "The Body of Christ" or "The Blood of Christ," the communicant's "Amen" is a profession in the presence of the saving Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity, who now gives life to the believer. ...The bread and wine of the Lord's Supper his Body and Blood as broken and poured out constitute the irreplaceable food for the journey of the "pilgrim church on earth." (USCCP: "Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion," paragraphs. 4,14)

This “sacrament” is taught as being "the source and summit of the Christian life" (CCC 1324) “the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes us live for ever in Jesus Christ," (CCC 1415) "a kind of consummation of the spiritual life, and in a sense the goal of all the sacraments," (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965) through which “the work of our redemption is carried out,” (CCC 1364) with the offering of which being the primary function of her clergy, and around which all else in Catholicism essentially revolves. The Eastern Orthodox likewise state that "the very center of our spiritual lives is the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist. (http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/twopaths.aspx)

In the light of the profound nature of this alleged miracle sacrifice and its critical constant importance (especially if necessary to obtain spiritual life as per the Catholic interpretation of Jn. 6:53,54) and centrality, and the doctrine of transubstantiation in Catholicism, along with the function of clergy to administer it, then many manifest descriptions of the priestly sacrificial ritual, and doctrinal teaching on transubstantiation would be be expected in the life of the NT church in Scripture (Acts onward) which are interpretive of the gospels.

Which is simply not the case, while only metaphorical explanation easily corresponds to the totality of Scripture, both with its use of metaphorical language as well as the means of obtaining spiritual life.

This study will therefore compare these claims with what the Holy Spirit makes manifest in the life of the NT church, but we must begin with words of the institution of the Lord's supper found in Matthew and Luke.

Scriptural record

Scripture in contrast with Catholicism

Summation

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luke 22:19-20)

Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Matthew 26:28)

The incarnated Lord refers to His body which was to be crucified and the blood that was to be poured out. And which was not like that of a Christ who was not manifestly incarnated, but who looked and sounded like and would taste and scientifically taste as real flesh and blood.

Therefore if taken purely literally, the "words of consecration" "this is my body which is given for you," "my blood of the new testament which is shed for many," then the elements would also look like, and taste and scientifically taste as real flesh and blood.

In addition is the incongruity of the disciples understanding and believing in transubstantiation in essence when they even found the death of Christ unfathomable, and were prone (Peter) to protest objectionable things.

Moreover, even "this cup is the new testament in my blood"is figurative language, and as another use of metaphorical language by the Lord the "this is my body/blood" words are easily corespondent to other metaphorical uses of eating and drinking in Scripture (see below). And to what was prophesied of the Lord, that He was "bruised [dâkâ'=break/broken: Job 19:2, Ps.94:4-5 (2), Isa_19:9-10 (3)] for our iniquities" and "poured out his soul unto death" (Is. 53:5,12)

For Catholics taking such words as "this is my body which is given for you: this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many" literally does not mean that what they consume is manifestly the incarnated body and blood of the Lord Jesus, which substantiated His claims to be the Messiah, but it is one that is held by Catholics to be the "The presence of Christ's true body and blood" but which "cannot be detected by sense, nor understanding, but by faith alone..." (Summa Theologica: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.TP_Q75_A1.html)

In contrast, at the Lord supper the Lord referred to His flesh and blood as that which would be manifestly crucified, that of the incarnate Christ, not which looked and sounded like and would taste and scientifically taste as an inanimate loaf of bread.

Those who afterward believed on the Lord without seeing Him are still placing faith in God who was manifest in the flesh, and seen in His resurrection as so, not an inanimate object. But such can represent Him, and it is the metaphorical concept that alone easily corresponds to the totality of Scripture. See here by God's grace.



The Acts of the apostles

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42)

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart. (Acts 2:46)

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed. (Acts 20:11)

Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. (Acts 20:26-27)

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. (Acts 20:32)

In the entire book of Acts with its 28 chapters the only possible description of the Lord's supper is simply that of breaking of bread, and yet this infer a a meal rather than a morsel of bread ans sip of wine. And there is no mention of it being ministered specifically by clergy, and whose primary active charge and function was that of preaching the Word, which word is what is said to build them up. (Acts 6:4; 20:28,32)

Pastors are simply and interchangeably (Acts 20:17,28) called presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer), denoting both position and function.

Thus if anything, the Lord's supper in Acts corresponds to a simple communal meal done in commemoration of the death of Christ, and no more.

Although breaking of bread may refer to the Lord's supper, nothing in Acts describes or teaches the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins, or as offered by a distinctive class of sacerdotal priests (apart from that of all believers), whose primary active function was to do so as in Catholicism, or which was consumed in order to obtain spiritual obtain life, and thus was the central ritual ministered by a distinctive class of sacerdotal priests.

Yet Acts abounds with feeding souls by preaching the word of God, and of baptism, along with healing and deliverance, with souls obtaining spiritual life by believing the gospel, and living by the word of God, as the Lord Jesus in John 6:57 said believers were to, as He lived by the Father, with the doing of it being His "meat." (Jn. 4:34)



The book of Romans

I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:14-16)

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea. (Romans 16:25-27)

Despite the overshadowing centrality and critical importance of the Catholic Eucharist and the doctrine of transubstantiation, any mention of the Lord's supper is utterly missing in this primary doctrinal book of 16 chapters. In which the gospel is explained as being the power of God unto salvation (Rm. 1:16) with 11 chapters on justification and election, and the meaning of baptism, and on overcoming faith, followed by exhortation on practical application, and greetings to brethren by the apostle Paul, who longs to see and help establish them in the faith.

Nothing in Romans describes or teaches the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins which was consumed in order to obtain spiritual obtain life, and thus was the central ritual ministered by a distinctive class of sacerdotal priests, (apart from that of all believers), whose primary active function was to do so, as in Catholicism.



First Corinthians

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8)

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (1 Corinthians 5:11)

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? (For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 1 Corinthians 10:16),17

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (1 Corinthians 10:18-21)

For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. (1 Corinthians 11:21-22)

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26)

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:27-32)

Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. (1 Corinthians 11:33-34)

1 Corinthians is the only letter to churches (aside from the mention of the "feast of charity" in Jude 1:12) that manifestly describes the Lord's supper.

In 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 an allusion to the Lord's supper is seen by some, but the word for "is" in "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" is not in the Greek, and most translations, including the Catholic NAB, have the correct "was," while even Pope Benedict argued that "the Last Supper was not a Passover meal." (http://catholiclane.com/dating-the-last-supper-excerpt-from-jesus-of-nazareth-part-2-by-joseph-ratzinger)

In 1 Corinthians 10 it is described as being the communion/fellowship of the blood and the body of Christ through their communal sharing in that meal done in remembrance of Christ's death, not by eating His flesh. For in context the apostle teaches that this fellowship is analogous to the fellowship pagans have with their gods in their commemorative feasts, participation by believers in which the apostle is condemning.

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (1 Corinthians 10:20,21)

Which partaking was not by consuming the transubstantiated flesh of devils, but by taking part in a feast done in dedication to demons. For they which eat of the sacrifices are partakers of the altar, showing union with the object of this feast and each other, and not because the food has been transubstantiated into that of the entity it is offered to.

In 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 the Corinthians are told they actually are not coming together to eat the Lord's supper, since some are selfishly eating independently while others were hungry, which was to "shame them that have not."

Therefore we see that the reason they were not truly coming together to "do this in memory of me"/eat the Lord's supper was because they were ignoring other members of the body of Christ for whom He died, (Acts 20:28) which was the very thing they were supposed to be effectually remembering/showing.

Paul thus reiterates the Lord's words referring to bread and wine as His body — the interpretation of which we are looking for in the life of the NT church— and His command to show/proclaim His death until He comes, and that partaking of the Lord's supper unworthily, not recognizing the Lord's body, was punishable even by death.

And which death some had experienced as a result of selfishly eating independently, ignoring other believers "for whom Christ died" (1Co. 8:11, which is a major emphasis for the former prosecutor Paul) thereby hypocritically failing to recognize the body of the Lord, whose unselfish death for them they were supposed to be effectually remembering/showing (see "remembering" in 1 Co. 15:2) by this communally sharing of bread inclusively as one body of blood-bought members. "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." (1 Corinthians 10:17)

That the focus was that of the church as the body of Christ which was not being discerned, versus the nature of the elements, is not only contextually manifest here but by its continuance in the next chapter.

While 1 Corinthians does not necessarily exclude the Catholic concept of the Lord's supper, it nowhere describes the Lord's supper as that of priests offering up a ritual sacrifice for sins, which is to be consumed in order to obtain spiritual life, and does not interpret the words of consecration according to Catholic transubstantiation theology.

Instead, the fellowship of the blood and the body of Christ contextually refers to the communal sharing of food by the body purchased by the sacrifice of Christ in effectual remembrance of that sacrificial death and love behind it.

To act contrary to this by ignoring/mistreating these members was contrary to what the Lord's supper was supposed to proclaim, and was a failure to recognize the body of Christ as consisting of those for whom Christ died.



The books of Second Corinthians Galatians , Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, First Thessalonians, Second Thessalonians, First Timothy, First Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, First Peter, Second Peter, First John, Second John, Third John, Jude, Revelation

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: (Ephesians 5:29)

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (Colossians 2:19)

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. (1 Timothy 4:6)

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Timothy 4:2)

Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; (1 Peter 5:2)

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:19-21)

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:16-21)

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:5,7)

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Hebrews 6:1-2)

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. (Hebrews 10:12,18)

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:21)

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) (1 John 1:1-2)

Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. (2 Thessalonians 3:12)

Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. (James 5:3)

And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. (Revelation 10:9)

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; (Jude 12)

Despite the breadth and scope of teaching in these church epistles, including the nourishment of believers, the titles and functions of pastors, the basics of Christian life, the feeding and nature of the body of Christ, literal and metaphorical eating, yet apart from the mere mention of the "feast of charity in Jude (which infers more than a morsel of bread and sip of wine) any mention of the Lord's supper is utterly missing.

In contrast to the overshadowing centrality and critical importance of the Catholic Eucharist and the doctrine of transubstantiation, any mention of the Lord's supper is utterly missing in these letters to the churches, much less describes or teaches it as a sacrifice for sins which was consumed in order to obtain spiritual obtain life, and thus was the central ritual ministered by a distinctive class of sacerdotal priests, (apart from that of all believers), whose primary active function was to do so, as in Catholicism.


561 posted on 09/21/2016 7:36:29 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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