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To: Elsie
"No ruler whacks for you."

Thank you, most gracious Elsie.

"Now; tackle the 'call no man Father' thingy."

We would do best by looking at that in context in Matthew 23: 8-10. Jesus says "Do not be called Rabbi (lit: "teacher"), You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. Do not be called ‘Master’; you have but one master, the Messiah.

Note that Christians have never taken this literally for any of these terms: neither for "father" nor for "teacher" or "master." Christians have called tens of thousands, maybe millions of people "teacher" using synonyms and words of all languages (professeur, tutor, magister, instructor, dáskalos, didaskalos); and similarly, we have no objection to speaking of a ship's master, a headmaster, a chess master, a master storyteller, chef, or brick-layer, and likewise, any creator of a masterpiece...

Apparently the words are not to be taken literally, since if we are not to call "anyone on earth" our father, that would include the man who sired us, who contributed half of our DNA. (He is "someone" "on earth"!)

But to the contrary, many dozens of times in the New Testament men upon this earth are rightly called "father," and there is no offense given to anyone in heaven or on earth.


This is what God's Word says:

Matthew 1:2
Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,

Matthew 15:4
For God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’

Mark 15:21
They compelled a passer-by, who was coming in from the country, to carry his cross; it was Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Luke 1:67
Then his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke this prophecy:

Luke 2:33
And the child’s father and mother were amazed at what was being said about him.

Luke 8:51
When he came to the house, he did not allow anyone to enter with him, except Peter, John, and James, and the child’s father and mother.

Luke 15:20
So he set off and went to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion; he ran and put his arms around him and kissed him.

Acts 7:2
And Stephen replied: “Brothers and father, listen to me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,

Acts 7:4
Then he left the country of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After his father died, God had him move from there to this country in which you are now living.

Acts 7:8
Then he gave him the covenant of circumcision. And so Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob, father of the twelve patriarchs Acts 22:1
“Brothers and father, listen to the defense that I now make before you.”

Romans 4:16
For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us,as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”)—

1 Corinthians 4:15
Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Ephesians 6:4
And, father, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Philemon 1:10
I am appealing to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment.

1 John 2:13
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.


God's people, historically, from the beginning until now, have always understood this to be proper.

The Church interprets Christ's words (no "father" "teacher" "master") to mean that God is our ULTIMATE Father, Teacher, Master. These words, applied to earthly persons, are derivative, limited and contingent; applied to God, they are foundational, limitless and absolute.

175 posted on 08/09/2016 4:57:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yet none using the address of father in the NT do so in the context as roman catholics do.


181 posted on 08/09/2016 6:06:12 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o

And yet you’ve posted nothing to show that any worship leader has been DIRECTLY called FATHER by those under him.


189 posted on 08/10/2016 3:51:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Apparently the words are not to be taken literally, since if we are not to call "anyone on earth" our father, that would include the man who sired us, who contributed half of our DNA.

(Eucharist exception noted.)

191 posted on 08/10/2016 3:57:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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