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To: aMorePerfectUnion
If you think "Apostolic Traditions" consist chiefly of an "official list," you are from the outset imposing artificial conditions, and misapprehending the meaning of Apostolic Tradition.

Yes, some of it consists of lists: the first and most important element of Apostolic Tradition is the canon of Scripture, both OT and NT. And that ---the canon --- is, precisely, a Table of Contents. An official list. So that part you got exactly right.

(Nice to be right, hey?)

The rest of the Apostolic Tradition,which we can derive from the practices of the early Church, would be:

There's more; it's not all contained in lists.

Now let me try a home-based analogy which may lllustrate why "Apostolic Tradition" cannot be a matter of "official lists." Say your family has been getting together for a big Thanksgiving feast every year since anone can remember: you personally have remembrance dating from approx. 1988, but it started way before that.

You could make a list of the particulars of this observance, perhaps rather scatterd and fragmentary at first:

The giving the the Five Flavor Pound Cake recipe to Patricia can be documented (e-mail, 2004) and Daddy Robert's passing (obit 1994) and Mama Flugehorn's passing can be documented (obit, 2015), and going through her personal papers, we've come across a lot of letters as well as piles of photographs dating back to the end of WWII. All of this is in boxes and manila envelopes, as yet un-sorted and un-organized.

But other than that, very little of this is strictly "documented". It might get written down IF James finishes doing the family tree that Mama was working on, AND writes up some of the archives. We don't want to lose the story of how Robert's father, a sheriff's deputy, died by drowning in the river while trying to re-capture an escaped convict; we also don't want to lose the story of the death of poor Janna, or the story of how Daddy Robert apparently had some kind of luminous vision before he died. He couldn't speak, but if you'd seen his face...

Meanwhile, we know it because we lived it, and are still living it.

In the same way, that's how we got, for instance, the "canon" --- not because somebody decreed it, but because these were, in practice, the texts the churches were already and actually using liturgically. We do things because this is the way, in practice, things have been done in the Churches. A lot could change incrementally, yet everything is the same. Thanksgiving does not morph into Eid Al-Fitr, it doesn't turn into drunken casino outing, it's always bound together by the ONGOING sense of tradition and propriety of an ONGOING loving Christian family.

Once you "get" that, , the particulars can all be put together, scouted out by the scholars, properly comprehended. Then you may make all the lists you please.

If you don't "get" that, NOTHING can be properly comprehended, no matter how many lists you have.

170 posted on 08/09/2016 3:55:36 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Oh, Mrs. Don-o...

The traditions referred to in Scripture are the ones I am referring to. Obviously, Paul knew exactly what they were when he referred to them. What are they?

The rest of your post has some accurate items, but some that are false.

Before going afield, please post the traditions Paul referred to and show how they are traced back to him so we know it is the same list.

172 posted on 08/09/2016 4:00:54 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Mrs. Don-o; aMorePerfectUnion
Yet in spite of that impressive list the catholic cannot point to the New Testament and find:

the prayers to/worship of Mary

the reliance upon Mary for salvation

purgatory

the priesthood

the mass

indulgences

indulgences to get out of purgatory

prayers to the departed

"veneration" of idols

the offices of pope, archbiship, etc

the ongoing revelations regarding Mary and the whole Mariology concept

mortal or venial sins

penance for forgiveness of sins

....the list can go on but you get the idea.

So yes, Christianity rejects Roman Catholicism's false practices.

178 posted on 08/09/2016 5:54:48 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Your chosen religion, long ago, put together a list.

Why does it now not use it?


Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 "'After this I will return
   and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
 18 things known from long ago.

 19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
186 posted on 08/10/2016 3:36:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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