After Renovation, Prison Where Sts. Peter and Paul were Jailed Now Open to Visitors

Catholic Culture ^ | 7/15/16

[blackpacific]

“And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” Luke 1:28

“Remember, the only one here in this discussion using real Biblical Scripture is me.”

[af_vet_1981]

Thank you. I also acknowledge there are many nonCatholics who are brethren in the Messiah.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

[Roman_War_Criminal]

She was blessed to be the mother of the Messiah.

She was still a sinner, she still needed salvation, and she never “ascended” into heaven.

Mary recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8)

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus’ death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Jesus’ payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?

[ebb tide]

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus’ death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation.

What "book" do you own? The Koran?

[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? James:: Chapter 2

[ebb tide]

She was still a sinner, she still needed salvation, and she never “ascended” into heaven.

What sins can you claim she committed? And if the Blessed Mother was not assumed (not "ascended") into Heaven, where was she buried?

By the way, where were Elijah and Encoch buried?. Not in your "book"?

[Roman_War_Criminal]

So you worship Mary?
Will she cleanse you of your sins?
Did she “sacrifice” herself for you on a Roman Cross?
Where?

Your last question is nonsense. You know they were both taken. The Bible doesn’t say squat about that happening with Mary and you know it. She died just like Peter, Paul and you one day. Maybe “Catholic” add on’s do, which goes against scripture (Revelation 22:18-20)

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Does it look like I’m quoting the Koran?
Or do you just have cinder block in-between your ears?

I’m guessing the latter. LOL!

[af_vet_1981]

Since the Bible does not record the death of Mary, blessed mother of "God with us," one cannot dogmatically hold she was not assumed into heaven by relying on the Bible.

[MHGinTN]

LOL ... now confirmed, nothing between the ears.

[MHGinTN]

Good luck trying to reason with magic thinkers ...

[blackpacific]

Supposing for the sake of argument that you have one person out of 5 billion humans that is without sin, by singular privilege. Would it be more accurate to say “all are sinners” or “some are sinners”? I think both you and I would agree, “all” is a better fit.

Mary happens to be the one exception to the rule.

But really, I think your problem is not with Mary, but with the concept that human nature is good. It was Martin Luther who spawned the notion that human nature was totally depraved. From this we have inherited many modern errors; those of Locke, Hobbs, Spinoza, Hegel, Marx, etc...their errors are all predicated on the essential rottenness of human nature.

We are called to be perfect, to abandon our sins and curb our sinful tendencies. We can do none of these things without Grace. As a Catholic I am blessed to have access to the Sacrament of Confession, where I can confess my sins to Jesus Christ and receive absolution, and to receive Jesus present in the Holy Eucharist. It is a birthright to anyone who is baptized into Christ.

It is Satan who has invented so many false counterfeit churches to keep Christians from the Sacraments. He is such a loser.

[Graybeard58]

Why isn't John The Baptist more venerated and adored in The Catholic church than Mary?

After all Jesus Himself said in Matthew 11, verse 11:

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he".

[af_vet_1981]

Jesus was born of a woman. Surely you are not claiming John the Baptist was greater than the Messiah, correct ?

[Graybeard58]

Jesus was born of a woman. Surely you are not claiming John the Baptist was greater than the Messiah, correct ?

##########################################################

I didn’t say it, Jesus did, I quoted Matthew 11 v 11:

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he”.

I’m thinking that perhaps Jesus was considering Himself as part of “the “kingdom of Heaven”. Just a thought and of course, I could be wrong but it says what it says. God Bless You.

[af_vet_1981]

I know who said it. I asked what you are claiming.
Jesus was born of a woman. Are not claiming John the Baptist was greater than the Messiah ?

[Graybeard58]

I’m saying no such thing and furthermore, you know it. It was a direct quote from Jesus. Matthew 11 v 11.

If you have a problem with it, take it up with Him. In the mean time quit trying to put words in my mouth, that I didn’t even hint of.

Jesus said it, I didn’t.

[af_vet_1981]

I know Jesus said it. You asked "Why isn't John The Baptist more venerated and adored ... ?" while quoting it to support your question.

I don't think the quote supports your question because
1. Jesus was born of a woman
2. John the Baptist was not greater than Jesus

[Graybeard58]

John the Baptist was not greater than Jesus

#########################################################

And I didn’t say he was. Your saying or even implying that I did makes you a liar.

[af_vet_1981]

Post 73 was posted under your ID.



You asked why (Saint) John the Baptist was not venerated and adored more than blessed Mary, mother of God with us, in the Catholic Church, although blessed Mary is only venerated since the Catholic Church teaches that adoration belongs only to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, based on the scripture you posted.