Posted on 06/16/2016 9:22:17 PM PDT by ebb tide
Pope Francis, spiritual leader of a billion people, has just informed them that ‘the great majority’ of sacramental marriages are invalid because couples don’t go into them with the right intentions. He was speaking at a press conference in Rome. Here’s the context, from the Catholic News Agency (my emphases):
‘I heard a bishop say some months ago that he met a boy that had finished his university studies, and said “I want to become a priest, but only for 10 years”. It’s the culture of the provisional. And this happens everywhere, also in priestly life, in religious life,’ he said.
‘It’s provisional, and because of this the great majority of our sacramental marriages are null. Because they say “yes, for the rest of my life!” but they don’t know what they are saying. Because they have a different culture. They say it, they have good will, but they don’t know.’
Uh? You can read the full report here but you won’t be much the wiser. The Pope, thinking aloud in the manner of some maverick parish priest after a couple of glasses of wine at dinner, has just told millions of his flock that they are not really married.
Did he mean to say that? What does he really think? What authority do his words carry?
And why should Catholics even have to ask these questions? Francis’s off-the-cuff ramblings on matters of extreme pastoral sensitivity are wreaking havoc in the Catholic Church, as I’ve written here.
Ross Douthat of the New York Times has just tweeted this response:
Screen Shot 2016-06-16 at 23.54.41
I suspect that even the Pope’s most liberal admirers will have difficulty extricating him from this mess.
But if it does that, the effort to twist the Word of God to say the specious will fail. What do you think is coming ...?
Once you believe in Him you are in His church. 1 Corinthians 1:2.
Scripture quote please.
I refuse to even attempt to prove a negative.
It’s up to you disprove the positive. Go for it.
See ANY of the long list of catholiciism doctrines and dogmas in that assertion by John The Baptist? What did JESUS teach Nicodemus earlier in the chapter? [HINT: it is related to the method of healing snake bites]
You tried the wiggle out of, “I refuse to even attempt to prove a negative.” You’re in over your head. If you are tossed a float will you receive it, or just drown in your foolishness? I’m betting your love of ‘Traditions’ will drag under ... 1545 AD the catholic hierarchy declares Traditions equal in authority to The word of God. Grab a few lead weights!
A lot of “someones”.
Rush would call this drive by catholicism. The Catholic drives by, makes an unsubstantiated claim to cause discord, and then drives off.
This thread is beginning to remind me of another recent thread with unsubstantiated claims by the Catholic. Those couldn’t be defended nor can these.
Annulments are on the house!
And you know a person’s heart to know if they are receiving the body and blood in an *unworthy* manner?
Who made you judge of a person’s heart?
Got something besides your opinion to back up your claim? Can you point to somewhere where Jesus said that someone has to be Catholic or belong to a certain denomination or religion to be saved?
Actually, the correction is that belonging to a certain church does not make you a follower of Christ. Being a follower of Christ makes you part of the body of Christ, which is not Catholicism, or Mormonism, or Pentecostalism, or Baptist, or Methodist, or whatever label you want to slap on someone.
The problem Catholics have is that they conflate the body of Christ with Catholicism.
While there are no doubt members of the body of Christ in Catholicism, as there are in any religious organization, not all members of Catholicism are members of the body of Christ.
There are believers and unbelievers in every denomination. The only thing that varies is the percentages of each.
Which church specifically did Jesus say?
I don’t see the word *Catholic* in that discourse.
I wonder how many Catholic go into Catholic marriage with the thought in the back of their minds that if they want out, they’ll apply for an annulment and not worry about the divorce route?
You of course mean the Catholic Church...That's a physical act that has nothing to do with Jesus' actual church...Joing the church is a spiritual procedure...
Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
People get saved and follow Jesus by hearing the words of the bible preached, NOT by joining a (your) church...
Act 11:20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.
Act 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
More people believing and then following the Lord as the result of hearing the word preached by street preachers in Antioch...They didn't belong to any church...
Act 11:23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
Act 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
Barnabas didn't go to a church to convince people to follow Jesus...They were added unto the Lord's church as they were saved/believed...
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, (no works) but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, (not washed by water but washed by a spiritual rebirth) and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
No church involved...When new believers were added to the body of Christ by choosing to follow Jesus they then joined a physical church of believers...
We will play along with your out of context quote to the question.
But the question remains to be answered by you.....
What makes someone part of this church?
Given the crisis in Marriage over the last 50 years, what are your thoughts on this?:
If a pope wanted to strengthen Catholic Marriage, he’d publish a clear and unambiguous scripture- and tradition-based doctrine, and start a program that included re-formation and periodic renewal of vows. Then the renewals would be considered a sacrament, and take away the “defective consent” argument and all other grounds for annulment.
Judaism does not have a tradition of consecrated celibates, but we do now from Scripture (Luke 2:37) that the prophetess Anna never left the Temple, but pray there night and day after she was widowed. Sometimes I wonder if Mary anticipated a similar celibate vocation (as virgin rather than widow) and thus realized that she was somehow similarly consecrated ---although she did not know beforehand that the reason was that she was to be the Mother of God.
ketubah, or at least was in some way agreed. After all if it were a common, ordinary marriage, it would have been a violation of fidelity on her part to have a baby by somebody else.
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