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To: JAKraig

“I would take issue with that in that Jesus is subject to The Father, they are then not co-equal. Elohim is the greater of the three. He commands and They obey His will. Even when Christ didn’t want to obey The Fathers will He did. Because of Nicea there have been many contortions of doctrines to try to make the definition of The Trinity as expressed by Nicea 325 fit with scripture but it still doesn’t. Nearly all if not all the laborious definitions of the Trinity come after Nicea 325. Christ Himself never makes these contorted definitions. He made sure that even the simplest of peoples could understand what He was talking about. Christ is divine, He is eternal but He was begotten and has inherited what He now has. While we call Him eternal He Himself expresses it a little differently, calling Himself the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. There is no beginning of eternal so that itself could be a subject of much conjecture.”

I am trying to determine what group you belong to, Mormon, JW, Oneness-Pentecostal. So for the sake of discussion, what faith do you hold, it does not appear to me to be orthodox Christianity of any sort.

To summarize this succinctly, when the NT speaks of the Father being greater than the Son, this is referring to the Father being greater relative to Christ Human nature. The relational and natural ordering of Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not imply and ordering of priority, which is a subordination doctrine of the Trinity, rejected by the early Church in all the Creeds and Councils, etc.


78 posted on 05/25/2016 7:15:49 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
From post #65, the following is pure Joseph Smithianism, Mormonism: "His Son who is also God has a name it is Jesus Christ, there is a third member of this group of gods that we call The Holy Ghost, we have no other revealed name for Him."
79 posted on 05/25/2016 7:24:21 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: CTrent1564

I am trying to determine what group you belong to, Mormon, JW, Oneness-Pentecostal. So for the sake of discussion, what faith do you hold, it does not appear to me to be orthodox Christianity of any sort. . . .

________________________________________________________

I hold my own personal religious beliefs. I was for many years a part of the Methodist Church and they put up with my non-conformist beliefs and my refusal to repeat the Apostles Creed but did not excommunicate me for it. I’m afraid churches have left me. They have changed much in the last 70 years and I find particularly distasteful what happened in Nicea. This hierarchy that became the Roman Church took nearly 300 years to develop and was no way inspired by Christ in my opinion. The emphasis on having “learned” scholars rule the rest of The Church also has become distasteful. Some years ago when my father died and the Methodist minister asked me If I had any particular scriptural references I would like him to use, I did they were all references to a literal Resurrection. He wouldn’t use them because he said it would confuse people into believing their bodies would be raised from the dead instead of just their spirits. From that time on I was done with my Methodism.

I believe what I believe and don’t begrudge anybody else what they believe, I just don’t consider myself stupid and feel I can figure it out myself form The Holy Bible.

I have married a Mormon girl, perhaps she doesn’t believe all that I believe and vice versa but we get along.


87 posted on 05/25/2016 9:31:51 AM PDT by JAKraig (my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: CTrent1564; JAKraig
Elohim is the greater of the three.

Stop right there. You don't know your Hebrew. "Elohim" (note the -im, which means plural) is a word with the sense, relating to The Godhead, of being uniplural. Wrong foundation for your reasoning.

178 posted on 05/26/2016 7:19:40 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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