[JAKraig]

You obviously know little of Roman History. I said nothing about the first century, we were talking about 325. I assure you that the council of Nicea that indeed Constantine was in charge and made the decisions and certainly Athanasius of Alexandria had his ear. I also don't think I said anything about a state religion I said universal religion, actually I said Universal or Catholic Church. If you really want to understand these things I highly suggest you read cover to cover the New Teatament, read each book without breaking it up to get the meaning of it. Understand that the writers of the 4 Gospels were not necessarily the Apostles but at least in two cases we know that they were men who traveled with them and wrote what they preached to many congregations well after their death. There is much to believe that John may have written his own Gospel during his long life but there are no guarantees.

Dissenting bishops indeed went into hiding after the first Nicean council but Constantine relented and forgave them and didn't enforce the edicts of Nicea 325. Their excommunications and executions did not take place until the 385 council. After 385 you either renounced your beliefs in doctrines other than Nicean 325 Trinitarianism or you died. After the 385 council there were no more opportunities for forgiveness, if you were caught teaching the unapproved doctrine you were accused of soccery, excommunicated and then executed.

When Maximus came to be Emperor he harshly enforced the council edicts of 385 although not with the Pope's blessing and Priscillia was the first Bishop to be executed, his followers continued with his teachings for another 250 years or so in Spain.

The bishop of Aix-en-Provence, Lazarus had to run for his life after the Pope tried to have him silenced. The bishop of Arles, Herod had the same problem. There are many, many others. I'm not going to make a list of many names of those who were excommunicated, banished or even executed, you can do some simple searches and find those names.

Prior to 385 the “Arian” theology as you call it was openly practiced and promoted by a large percentage of the Western Church. Recall that The trinitarian view held today came from Greece, then considered The East. After 385 this could no longer be done and the Popes came down hard on not just Arians but anyone who did not tow the official trinitarian line.

You may disagree all you want but this is well known history documented in many places. I don't care what your priest told you but these are the facts.

History can be ugly, the people of the times when history happened however thought they had good reasons for their actions or would not have done the things they did.

I'm not condemning the actions of these leaders any more than I would condemn George Washington for owning slaves, that was what they did then and thought right.

Today as a society, as lay people we have far more access to facts than people had in the past, we don't share the same excuses. I refuse to be forced to believe something I cannot make sense of just because a Roman emperor who was not even a Christian at the time in 325 was made to believe it. I suspect I am much more learned than Constantine or Athanasius who started all this so I will make up my own mind thank you. I will use what we have left of the scriptures after the councils of 325 and 385 destroyed much of what was considered scripture at the time because they did not support the trinitarian doctrine of the new day.

[CTrent1564]

JAKraig:

Arian doctrine originated in the East, not West. And there was very little Arian theology in the West. Arius was taught in Antioch and then went to Alexandria, where he began positing the Arian doctrine of the Trinity.

The formula Consubstantial with the Father, which was direct rejection of Arianism was the Western Term that was translated Homoousious in Greek was from the Western Church, and was voiced by Bishop Hosius of Cordova (Spain) and Latin part of the Church, which represented the Roman Church’s view on the question as this term was probably agreed on by the Pope and the Western Church representatives (5 Western Bishops and the 2 Papal Legates) before hand.