Posted on 05/21/2016 8:38:01 AM PDT by Salvation
Q. Many of our Protestant brethren say that, before Jesus comes, there will be a rapture wherein all the faithful will be taken up, I guess, to meet Him in the sky. When I tell them that the Bible says we will “see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven” (Mt 24:30) and “he will send his angels ... and they will gather his elect from the four winds” (Mt 24:31), and then ask them who will be left to “gather” if everyone has previously been “raptured,” they say it will be the Jews. What is the Church’s teaching on this? Will there even be such a thing as the rapture? I’m confused! Any light you can shed on the subject will be greatly appreciated!
Rich Willette, Springfield, Vt.
A. The notion of rapture (a Latin word that means to be snatched away) is a very novel concept among certain (not all) evangelicals. It is a notion less than 150 years old and finds no real support in the biblical text as you point out. Fundamentally, the theory asserts that before the final tribulations of the last times, faithful Christians will be snatched away. Rapture theorists disagree about the exact moment of the snatching. Some say it will be pre-tribulation, others midway through the tribulations, and some even say post-tribulation.
The root text for evangelicals who hold rapture theory is a text from the First Letter to the Thessalonians: “Indeed. we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, console one another with these words” (4:15-18).
The context is the second coming of Christ. There are not two second comings taught in Scripture, but rapture theory posits two — the one described in First Thessalonians and another one, some 1,000 years later. Note, too, that in First Thessalonians there is no mention of some people being left behind. There is no mention of a 1,000-year reign. Nor does St. Paul indicate that what he is describing here is a different coming of Christ, distinct from other texts in the Gospel wherein Christ describes His own second coming.
Thus we are left with a text that simply does not support what rapture theorists say. They further strive to unnaturally stitch this account with other texts in the Book of Revelation. The result is a highly debatable account of the last days that even rapture theorists hotly debate in terms of the details. The whole enterprise amounts to an attempt to shoehorn biblical passages into rapture theory that more clearly call it into question. To say the “elect” are merely the Jews is speculative at best and fanciful and contrived at worst.
As for Catholic teaching on these matters, the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes it as follows: “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers [see Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12]. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. [see 2 Thes 2:4-12; 1 Thes 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; 1 Jn 2:18-22]” (No. 675).
“It has to be millennial if there is mortality.”
Well, considering that Isaiah 65:17, 18 and 19 all refer to the new heavens, new earth and new Jerusalem, I find it extraordinarily doubtful that Isaiah 65:20 would somehow NOT refer to that period. It seems much more likely that people are misinterpreting 65:20 if their interpretation creates such a blatant contradiction.
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>> “Do you wonder how people found God before the Bible was written?” <<
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Very few people found Yehova before he delivered his Torah at Mount Sinai.
Even then only a handful of Israel truly believed. (read about that in Hebrews Ch 3 and 4)
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>> “The thread is about the rapture, ealgeone did a great job of hijacking it to push his agenda about Mary.” <<
The false ‘Mary’ spirit has led millions to eternal damnation. Informing Yehova’s sheep about that demonic hazard is hardly a hijacking.
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You may not but my posts on this and other topics are also for the casual reader who doesn’t post. Christians are called to point out false teachings and the Marian dogmas of Catholicism fit that category.
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Isaiah 65: 20-25 are clearly speaking of biological life, not incorruptible spirit bodies. The verses prior are predictive of NHNE, but not treating it as existing.
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I’ll have to understand your background a bit more before I can answer your question.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Perhaps a hint of what we will be like in the resurrection.
Topic be darned, go for the agenda and false accusations. Heck of M.O. you got going there. I guess this means I am free to post about the idolatry non-Catholics engage in on any thread I feel like.
Recall you interjected Mary into the conversation.
This is Free Republic.
I certainly hope you do a better job in the future than you have here. But from your prior postings my expectations for that will be very low.
There’s no hint of division between Isaiah 65:17-19 and the rest of the chapter, so I think you’re just grasping at straws to say the prior verses do not precede the latter verses. That’s the only thing that could save your interpretation, but there is nothing in the text to suggest that, so why should we believe it unless we are already committed to your interpretation?
But it will always be much better than yours. You might consider getting used to that.
Your post 46 indicates otherwise.
You should try stand up. Still waiting on your Greek rendering of Luke 1:34 to explain how Mary made a vow of perpetual virginity.
Verse 17 looks beyond the kingdom-age to the new heavens and the new earth (see refs. at "create"), but verses 18-25 describe the kingdom-age itself. Longevity is restored, but death, the "last enemy" 1Cor 15:26 is not destroyed till after Satan's rebellion at the end of the thousand years. Rev 20:7-14.
The Plymouth Brethren?
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal
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I did explain it and it seems that only the non-Catholics failed to understand. Like I suggested you might want to see about a different (Catholic) Seminary, or getting a refund.
We will revisit that thread to confirm. Better run out there and post something so you won’t be proven incorrect again.
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