Posted on 02/23/2016 8:17:35 AM PST by Salvation
In post 172 you said, and I copy and paste....."No question Jesus violated many of the precepts of the Jewish Law; He was, after all, convicted of blasphemy."
You, right here, state that Jesus sinned. That's what violating the Law is. It's sin.
*No question* you said. You made yourself very clear.
Now you're backtracking and claiming that Jesus did not sin.
Well, which is it? Did He sin and break the Law or not?
Heh, I can articulate my faith.
Jesus is my Lord and Savior. When I put my faith and trust in Him He saved me and I was born again.
Christ now dwells in my heart through faith and that is why I’m saved and secure in it.
Not just because I said so, but because He who is faithful has promised.
After all, some great Christian said something along the lines of our salvation is secure because of God’s promise to us, not our promise to God.
John 6 indeed speaks of many things besides the Real Presence in the Eucharist. On the latter, however, it demolishes the Protestant illusion that at the Last Supper, and generally at Catholic Liturgy ever since, the words “this is my body/blood” are somehow metaphorical, symbolic or allegorical. If you want to change the topic to something else, I understand but I am here to make this particular point.
And are they wrong in their charge?
Correct. The point is that it marks the departure from Christianity as a branch of Judaism to Christianity proper. Offering to eat His body at what began as a Seder meal is a pivotal part of the departure. I bring it up because someone here "explained" to me that good Jews do not eat their friends' flesh.
:-)
Ah, sure.
See, faith is what you do. So if that Atheist/Muslim professes Atheism and Islam as day is long and then puts down his life for his friends and enemies alike, then that is done objectively in imitation of Jesus, and may save him when his day comes. Compare Matthew 25:31-46.
Jesus violated many of the precepts of the Jewish law and He also never sinned.
When God breathed into Adam, what did Adam become? Please keep in mind the reference Jesus gave to Nicodemus regarding the Holy Spirit being like the wind ... Adam became a living soul, not just a soul like the other creatures on the Planet, a living soul -Life in the soul as a spirit not yet encumbered by sin.
In Leviticus there is law given to not eat the blood of the creature because the life is in the blood. When Cain slew Abel, what cried out from the ground? ... The blood of the innocent, for the life of the creature Abel was in his blood. All creation groaneth awaiting the new World God will bring that is without sin. Do the creatures of the world have a spirit, or only a soul? ... the Bible teaches that man is body, soul, and spirit. It does not teach that animals have a spirit.
What did Jesus tell His disciples profiteth for the spiritual life? ... He told them that His words were spirit and life. He had just stymied the twisters and chasers after a sign by exposing their limits of seeing only the soul and body, the body in which the life is in the blood. To His disciples He gave deeper instruction, showing them that He came to give SPIRITUAL LIFE to those who faithe in Him, that consuming the body gave no spiritual life for the Words He speaks to them they are spirit and LIFE. [John 6]
When a catholic eats the catholic wafer, is it to get the life of the physical body of Jesus into themselves? ... Jesus is occupying His physical body presently and forever more. It had the wounds from the crucifixion in that body when Jesus told Thomas to stretch forth his hand to the wound in Jesus's side. Jesus is in that body drawing life from The Father, as He explained to His disciples in John 6, that the life He lives is drawn fromt he Father. The life of the creature is in the blood; the Life in Jesus is in The Spirit. And it is THAT LIFE which Jesus came to give to us who are from fallen Adam, for in the day that Adam fell, the Spirit life went out of his spirit. He remained physically alive, with his blood coarsing through his body, but in that day he surely did die! Satan's lie was that in the day they sinned they would not surely die: the lie conflated spirit life with creature life. The catholic Eucharist does something very similar, claiming the catholic eats the very body and blood of Jesus in the catholic wafer.
When a young man came to Jesus and asked what else he need do to inherit eternal life, what happened? ... When the young man turned away and the disciples asked Jesus if they should go after him, what did Jesus tell them? ... Let the dead go bury the dead. Jesus referred to the lack of spirit life in their human spirits. The young man walked away a dead soul but living body.
When Nicodemus came to Jesus asking about spiritual things, Jesus told him that a man must be born again, born from above. We know this did not mean a man must enter again into a mother's womb and be born in body again, so we reason that Jesus was referring to being born from above by God placing in the man's spirit that which went out with Adam, Life more abundantly. Adam could pass to his children the place for spirit life, but only God conveys Spirit Life to the human spirit we inherited from Adam.
If you walk into the cathedral and receive the Eucharist, is your blood dead? No, but unless you have been born from above, your spirit is in a state of deadness, for only the spirit Life God offers can make you alive forever more in Christ. You do not consume the actual flesh and blood of Jesus, but by faithing in what He did for you on the cross you are remembering the Life that is not in the blood but in the Spirit. Being born from above is not an act of endless repetition for you. Once you are born from above you are in the family of Jesus. When you partake of the communion you are acknowledging your allegiance and reliance upon The Life in your spirit, there by the Promise of God in response to your believing in the One God sent for your spirit to have Life.
Jesus would not violate the very laws He came to fulfill, and especially would not cause His disciples to commit such a violation against Levitical Laws on the night before He went to the cross to be the only propitiation possible for sin, The Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. The Lamb of God was without spot or blemish thus thesinless sacrifice ...
The CCC even claims this is a re-sacrifice of Christ again.
Each time the catholic claims the Eucharist, he/she re-sacrifices Christ again and again and again, and on, and on, and on.
I guess that's why catholics still protray Him on the Cross when the NT present Him as no longer on the Cross.
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.189
1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190
Again the high priest asked him, and said to him: Art thou the Christ the Son of the blessed God? And Jesus said to him: I am. And you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming with the clouds of heaven. (Mark 14:61-62)
If the person realizes what he/she is doing and what the differences in beliefs are, I’d say that it was a SERIOUS defamation of the Eucharist and would be an INTENTIONAL act against Christ.
You are paraphrasing John 6:64 (your numbering might be wrong):
It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
No one is making an argument that the eating of "the catholic wafer" profits the body. It is an act of faith that shapes our souls. So the points you are making come from the ignorance of the scripture and ignorance of the authentic Christianity.
The life of the creature is in the blood; the Life in Jesus is in The Spirit
That is Gnostic nonsense. Christ very much died the death of a body, physical body. If you think that the Eucharist has nothing to do with the body of Christ, not only are you denying His words, you are also denying that the death on the Cross was physical death, and that the torture was physical torture.
. Being born from above is not an act of endless repetition for you
One must be baptized - born from above - in order to receive the Eucharist, true. One cannot be re-baptized, also true. But one can re-affirm the baptismal promise and in fact one is asked to at Mass. This is why the holy water is at the entrance.
I disagree bro. If Jesus violated ANY precept of the Jewish law, he would have been a sinner. He did not accept the perversion of the so called leaders of Judaism, who strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel.
He didn't accept their useless traditions, because they were teaching for doctrine, the commandments of men. Most of us don't accept the traditions of other religions, which will not be named at this time. If some people do, that's on them.
What they believed and when they believed it, we don't know from the New Testament, yes, but we know that Christ told them what they were eating at the Last Supper, and then St. Paul admonished the faithful to "discern the body" (1 Cor 11:27-29).
The CCC even claims this is a re-sacrifice of Christ again
No it doesn't. The canons 1366 and 1367 say that the Eucharist makes the one and only sacrifice of Christ present again; it does not say it is another sacrifice.
What physical evidence does your overwhelming ability to discern reality require.....MOST Christians beelieve it just because Christ said it
Here is another tenet of the Jewish Law triumphantly violated:
he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common. (Acts 10:11-15)
Or else you will not benefit from the Eucharist....VERY sad.
more childish than usual....sigh
Luther NEVER did, Lutherans do because by revolting against Catholicism, they fell away from the apostolic succession required to pass along holy orders.
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