Posted on 02/02/2016 6:34:46 PM PST by grumpa
Even many Christians misunderstand Revelation. For some, Revelation is so bizarre that they pretty much ignore it. Others mistakenly apply the symbolism of Revelation to our present day. But Revelation is really not so difficult once you grasp the context and symbolic language. Remember, it is part of the Bible and there is little, if anything at all, in Revelation that is not found elsewhere in the Bible. Indeed, there are hundreds of references in Revelation to the Old and New Testament.
Let's just take a quick look at the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14. These were the FIRST FRUITS to God and the Lamb, not some later group! They were the ones coming out of the Great Tribulation. John, the author of Revelation, said he was in the tribulation AS HE WAS WRITING (Revelation 1:9), in the early to mid sixties AD. There are many proofs that demonstrate that the Great Tribulation was the persecution of Christians under Nero and the subsequent Jewish Roman War that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70. And there are many confirming proofs that Revelation was written before AD 70.
There were twelve tribes of Israel, so the 144,000 can be understood for what it signified. The number 1,000 is symbolic of FULLNESS. So 12 times 12 times 1,000 equals 144,000. As the first fruits, the 144,000 represents the FIRST GENERATION CHRISTIANS (the righteous remnant of the twelve tribes of Israel) who experienced the Great Tribulation, culminating in the desolation of Jerusalem and the Jewish holocaust in AD 70! The 144,000 is clearly not to be taken literally, as, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses think. Romans 8:23; 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 1:18 further identify the first fruits as first-century believers.
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Not the original tribes, Dan was removed.
Joseph is divided into Ephraim, and Manasseh.
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Really, its too bad that the author didn’t have a Bible.
It’s His message, delivered by the angel - we’ll see that in a few chapters.
I would love to know how you study. You are so confident in what you know. Any pointers? I am thirsty for wisdom. I feel that way too about currently being close to the end of the seals.
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Read your mail!
If I supply enough symbolism, even my paving stones become prophecy. If Preterism is true, then we are living in a near perfect world of peace in the Millennial rule of Christ.
Obama ain’t no Jesus, and men do not live hundreds of years. You will have to really go thick on the symbolic gravy when you bring the reality of life to bear on the symbolic day dreams of false prophecy. They only work in isolation to their own values.
I always felt the gas in the tank of Preterists was hiding from the reality of living in the times leading to His return. One does not have to worry about the house burning down when one smokes the opium of its all over but the party.
“They were the ones coming out of the Great Tribulation. “
No, this is NOT the 144,000. Revelation 7 has two different and distinct groups. The 144,000 are clearly chosen among Israel. The passage goes into detail, repeating over and over how each of twelve represented tribes have 12,000 sealed respectively.
The ones coming out of the Great Tribulation were uncountable and from every nation. Big difference.
“John, the author of Revelation, said he was in the tribulation AS HE WAS WRITING (Revelation 1:9)”
No he didn’t.
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
John was a partaker of tribulation, not THE Tribulation. THE Tribulation, the Great One, had not yet come. It was to come on the whole world.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Leave no ‘stone unturned’. First of all, pray that God guides you as you study. Tell him that you want to understand his word with all your heart.
Read slowly, even reading a verse or sentence over until you’ve made sure that you understand it to best of your ability. Keep everything in context.
A good example of getting something OUT of context is the misunderstanding of 1Cor. 15:29, by a certain group that baptizes people in place of someone that had already died, but wasn’t baptized.
The confusion is that they fail to see the context:
Paul starts chapter 1Cor. 15 teaching of Christ’s resurrection, and shifts gears at verse 12, telling of the doubters arguments about no resurrection, and the hopelessness if Christ is not. This continues through verse 19, then he diverts for a few verses to teach of the Lord’s resurrection, and the results of it. Then.....
...in verse 29, he continues the thought from 19. He is saying that, why be baptized into Christ if he is not risen, or his saints will not rise from the dead? Then Paul closes the passage reaffirming that Christ is risen.
John 3:16 is a great verse. But, it must not be separated from the previous words of Christ in that chapter (the ‘rest of the story’, as Paul Harvey would say).
The events foretold by the prophets, THE Prophet Jesus Christ, and relayed to John (Revelation), tell of destruction worse than ever before, and worse than anything afterward.
Personally, I think that WW2 surpasses anything the Romans did to Israel, in terms of destruction (how many Jews died at the hands of Hitler and Stalin? millions). And even then, there was no ability for people around the world see the ‘two prophets’ do their work, finally be killed, and then rise from the dead and ascend to heaven. We didn’t have live TV from around the world in WW2, because there were no satellites yet, to make that possible.
Yes, the time is at hand, closer than ever.
Thanks much.
Anytime; glad to be of any help. (I kinda offered my ‘two cents’ without being asked. God bless).
[[Who Were the 144,000 of Revelation?]]
Who WERE they?
You mean I’ve been left behind?
The symbolism was used in other places of prophetic and apocalyptic literature. The only question is why it’s gotten so badly misinterpreted.
>>The 144,000 Israelites that are sealed in chapter 7 are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. These will be protected during the tribulation times from the trumpet and bowl judgments. They will survive through this time of judgment here on the earth. It does not say that they are all male virgins, it just says 12,000 from each tribe. It is likely that they are men and women of Israel. They are seen on earth.
The 12 tribes of Israel ceased to exist long ago. The bloodlines are all intermarried and some may have been eradicated completely.
At the top of the list is Charles Meek.
And what was the date of the Second Coming?
Or it means exactly one more than 999.
So the Second Coming must have already happened.
So what is the MESSAGE of Revelation?
Everyone likes to focus on details first. But the details without the major message is worth nothing.
What is the message? Repent and turn to God before it is too late. Now take a look at the details..............
God is able to preserve the Israelites all during their exile from their homeland, then brought them together as a nation in 1948. Their language, Hebrew, had not been spoken in 2,000 years, He brought that back too. I am sure that He can preserve the blood lines of the 12 tribes as well.
Because Jesus said that 12,000 from each tribe will be sealed, you can take it to the bank that He will.
I find revelation and prophecy to be extremely literal. The main reason that it is often drifts into symbolic interpretation is an attempt to make it fit a theme instead of letting it be what it is, exegesis vs isogeses.
In the case of preterism, having to fit it in the past puts a strong bias into finding symbolism to make it fit. An indication that you have drifted in an incorrect direction is when some parts fit, while others remain disconnected. When you are getting close is when all parts fit within an over all poetrey. When the understanding cross computes on many layers within the theme. God tends to speak on many levels at once.
Another good concept to apply is that prophecy is not doctrinal, and should never be used as such. Wandering there is a real Red flag. The Gospels are for doctrine, not prophecy. False prophets use prophecy for doctrine quite often.
Prophecy is a warning on what is coming down now, in your lifetime, if it is about another timeline it is not prophecy, its history. It was prophecy for someone else. So to really study prophecy you must be willing to freely apply it to your own timeline to see if it truely fits. In most timelines it will partially fit. Only in the correct timeline will the fit fully fit like a key in the lock.
Lucky for us, currently we are in such a time line.
One last observation, most prophecy is given from the perspective of Israel vs the world at large, if you tend to study from an Israel centered perspective it helps.
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