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Don’t confuse traditional marriage with other kinds of unions, says Pope
Catholic Herald ^ | January 25, 2016

Posted on 01/25/2016 3:30:34 PM PST by NYer

Francis met with members of the Roman Rota on Friday

Pope Francis said there can be no confusion between God's plan for marriage as an indissoluble bond between one man and woman who are open to life, and other sorts of unions.

"The Church, in fact, can demonstrate God's unwavering merciful love toward families, especially those wounded by sin and life's trials, and at the same time proclaim the essential truth of marriage according to God's plan," the Pope said on Friday, in a meeting with members of the Roman Rota. Francis holds the annual meeting to inaugurate the Vatican court's judicial year.

Pope Francis said the court, which hears requests for marriage annulments, helps support families and the truth about the sacred bond of marriage.

In evaluating and judging marriage cases and contributing to formation, the Roman Rota helps promote and proclaim the truth, he said.

When the Church, through the court's service, seeks to declare the truth about marriage in each specific case, it always bears in mind that those "who, through free choice or unfortunate circumstances in life, live in an objective state of error continue to be the object of the merciful love of Christ and therefore of the Church, too."

The two gatherings of the Synod of Bishops focused on the family were occasions of "in-depth, knowledgeable discernment" and they gave the Church a chance to tell "the world that there can be no confusion between the family desired by God and any other kind of union," the Pope said.

"The family, based on indissoluble, unitive and procreative marriage, is part of God's 'dream' and the Church's for the salvation of humanity," he said.

The Church will always offer the truth about marriage, he said, "not as an ideal for the few, despite modern examples based on what is fleeting and transitory, but as a reality that, with Christ's grace, can be lived by all the baptised faithful."

That means there is great pastoral urgency for adequate marriage preparation, for example, he said, with a kind of marriage "catechumenate" that was suggested during the synods on the family. A catechumenate would entail a longer process of formation before marriage, as well as during the years right after the wedding.

While the family is considered to be a "domestic Church," he said, the Church is the family of God. Therefore, the church must be filled with a loving, "family spirit," where people are "no longer strangers and sojourners," but members of God's family, he said.

The Church -- as both mother and teacher -- knows that not every one of her children is perfect, he said.

"The Church knows that some Christians have a faith that's strong, formed from love, strengthened by good catechesis and nourished by prayer and a sacramental life," the Pope said, "while others have a faith that's weak, neglected, unformed, poorly taught or forgotten."

The Pope reiterated Church teaching that the level of a person's faith "is not an essential condition of matrimonial consent" and in fact, he said, it is not unusual for engaged couples to go into a marriage with a limited understanding of the fullness of God's plan.

"The lack of formation in the faith and even error concerning the unity, indissolubility and the sacramental dignity of marriage invalidate matrimonial consent only when they determine" or condition a person's will, he said.

Precisely for this reason, "errors which concern the sacramentality of marriage must be evaluated very carefully," he said.


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
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To: asyouwish

You are very welcome.


41 posted on 01/28/2016 6:35:17 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; SumProVita

Fox’s Andrew Napolitano Calls Pope Francis A “Communist” And A “Marxist” For Linking European Refugee Crisis To Global Poverty.

Judge Napolitano: “This Particular Pope ... Is Somewhere Between A Communist With A Lowercase ‘C’ And A Marxist With An Uppercase ‘M’”


42 posted on 01/30/2016 6:25:58 AM PST by heye2monn
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To: SumProVita
Thanks for this quote. I will look up the source at First Things.
43 posted on 01/30/2016 6:43:41 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." - 1 Timothy 3:15)
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To: ebb tide; SumProVita
"Why did God destroy Sodom?"

I am so glad you asked this question, ebb tide! It is explicitly answered right in the words of the Holy Spirit through the Holy Prophet Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 16:49
"Now, this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
>


44 posted on 01/30/2016 6:52:13 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." - 1 Timothy 3:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; SumProVita
Once again, you selectively quote. Here's the sentence that immediately follows your parsed paragraph:

[50] And they were lifted up, and committed abominations before me: and I took them away as thou hast seen.

45 posted on 01/30/2016 7:43:06 AM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide; SumProVita
I have no problem with quoting two consecutive verses. Sodomy committed "abominations". Now let's quote a bunch more verses to see the Bible says about abominations.

The Bible speaks of four sins as crying out to Heaven for vengeance:

Scripture speaks of the "sin of Sodom" being, in fact, multiple sins:

(Ezekiel 16:49-50)
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

"Abomination" surely includes man-on-man sex, and that's not all it includes. Also called "abominations" in the Bible are:

The six abominations of Proverbs 6:16-19

There are six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to him;Additionally, Scripture lists:
And there's more, I just got tired of typing.

The Bible does not treat homosexuality quite differently than the other sins. In fact, both in the OT and the NT, it invariably includes it in "sin lists" with many others.

St. Paul's sin catalogues, plus St. John's line-up in Revelation, all list sexual sins in with idolatry, greed, fighting, and every other kind of sin:

Homosexual acts are acts of grave depravity. Under o circumstances can they be justified. However, I don't think we should try to isolate homosexual vice as a somehow unique kind of wickedness, nor minimize the abomination of all these other sins.

I suspect some people do that because they are not personally tempted by homosexual vice, but are tempted by many of the others. For instance, who, these days, accuses himself of "abomination" for "neglecting the poor and needy" or for "sowing discord"?

46 posted on 01/30/2016 8:25:38 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 89:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Shedding of Innocent Blood(Gen 4:10)
The Sin of Sodom (Gen 18:20-21, Ezekiel 16:48-51)
Oppression of the Poor (Ex 2:23-25)
Defrauding Workers of a Just Wage (James 5:4.

Thanks for proving my point. Otherwise, why are the third and fourth sins listed above not inclusive under the second one?

Because Sodom’s unique sin that cries out to Heaven was homo sex.


47 posted on 01/30/2016 9:09:39 AM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I suspect some people do that because they are not personally tempted by homosexual vice, but are tempted by many of the others.

"Some people"? Get real; over 98 percent of the humans are straight. You give the gay lobby too much credit.

48 posted on 01/30/2016 9:15:54 AM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
Very true, ebb tide. I will amend my statement:

"I don't think we should try to isolate homosexual vice as a somehow unique kind of wickedness, nor minimize the abomination of all these other sins.

"I suspect 98% of us do that because we are not personally tempted by homosexual vice, but are tempted by many of the others."

Thank you for that improvement.

49 posted on 01/30/2016 9:54:59 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 89:15)
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To: ebb tide
Please note again the Ezechiel verse, which was included under the "Sin of Sodom" which you quoted:

(Ezekiel 16:49-50)
"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

The point is that the sins (plural) of Sodom, which were abominations, included homosexual vice, pride, avarice, gluttony, covetousness, other sexual sins, oppression of workers, neglect of the poor.

These things so commonly go together. The Prophets of Israel and the Doctors of the Church listed sexual and economic sins together. Medieval homilists, in their Lenten sermons, used to group these three: Usury, Luxury, Sodomy.

50 posted on 01/30/2016 10:02:16 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 89:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; SumProVita
The Bible does not treat homosexuality quite differently than the other sins.

Perhaps you then can explain why Lot offered over his daughters to the men beating on his door for sex but he refused to turn over the visiting men.

Give it a rest. Homosexual sin is unnatural and a sin in itself that cries out to Heaven.

Why don't you read Genesis in full context and see exactly when God decided to destroy Sodom? It was immediately after the sodomites were beating on Lot's door for homo sex.

51 posted on 01/30/2016 10:28:47 AM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
Before I answer your questions, you answer me this:

BTW, homosexual sin is unnatural and a sin in itself that cries out to Heaven. Nobody here is disputing that.
52 posted on 01/30/2016 11:38:21 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 89:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

>>How many of them do you suppose were homosexuals?<<

All of them.

>>Was Lot right and just to offer the violent mob his two virgin daughters “to do with what they liked”?<<

See my answer above. Lot knew they were all homos and thus knew his offer would be declined.

I was not aware you were this defensive of fudge packers.


53 posted on 01/30/2016 12:02:21 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Was Lot right and just to offer the violent mob his two virgin daughters "to do with what they liked"?

Was God right and just to order Abraham to slay his beloved son, Isaac?

54 posted on 01/30/2016 12:25:01 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Before I answer your questions, you answer me this:

I answered your questions.

Why haven't you answered mine?

55 posted on 01/30/2016 3:31:18 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
(1) You said earlier today "Get real; over 98 percent of the humans are straight." That seems to conflict with you now stating that 100% of all the people of Sodom were homosexual. Perhaps you can explicate this seeming contradiction?

(2) "Lot knew they were all homos and thus knew his offer would be declined. This is not stated or even implied in the text, and in terms of motivation it makes no sense. If he knew it was pointless, he would not have made the offer. Why would he? It gains him nothing. It's quite apparent he offered his daughters to be gang-raped as a means to an end: to divert the crowd away from assaulting his angelic visitors.

(3)"You [are] ...defensive of fudge packers." Absurd. I said that homosexual acts are --- like many other sins as specified in Holy Scripture --- abominable, acts of grave depravity, and in no case can they be justified. How is that "defensive of fudge packers"?

56 posted on 01/30/2016 6:08:06 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Mercy means giving people a challenge; not covering reality with gift wrap." - a Synod participant)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
That seems to conflict with you now stating that 100% of all the people of Sodom were homosexual.

Only in you biased mind.

Duh? Why aren't you counting Lot and his two male visitors and and his two future son-in-laws as heterosexuals in your 100% figure?

So Lot went out, and spoke to his sons in law that were to have his daughters, and said: Arise: get you out of this place, because the Lord will destroy this city.Genesis 19:14

Your continued defense of sodomy being no different than immoral heterosexual sex sickens me.

You'd be better at a being a Protestant than a Catholic; seeing the way you cherry pick the Bible to defend sodomy as no worse than immoral heterosexual sex.

P.S. When Adam and Eve were created there were 0% homosexuals.

57 posted on 01/30/2016 6:36:23 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
(2) "Lot knew they were all homos and thus knew his offer would be declined. This is not stated or even implied in the text, and in terms of motivation it makes no sense. If he knew it was pointless, he would not have made the offer. Why would he? It gains him nothing. It's quite apparent he offered his daughters to be gang-raped as a means to an end: to divert the crowd away from assaulting his angelic visitors.

It's not only implied, it's obvious! Did any of those homos take up Lot's offer of his daughters.

58 posted on 01/30/2016 6:40:43 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
>>How many of them do you suppose were homosexuals?<<
All of them.

Those are your words, not mine.

It's you, also, who said "Get real, over 98% of humans are straight."

So I'm just comparing one ebb tide saying with another ebb tide saying. I, myself, didn't say either of these things. I am asking you to explain your apparent contradiction.

As, perhaps you can. Who knows? I'm all ears.

"Your continued defense of sodomy being no different than immoral heterosexual sex sickens me."

This is a truly nutzoid statement. I never "defended" sodomy on any terms whatsoever. What I said, repeatedly, literally, is that it is an abomination, an act of grave depravity, and that it can not under any circumstances be justified.

Please note that heterosexuals commit sodomy, too. There are even male FReepers --- yes, right here on this forum --- who have justified sodomizing their lawful wedded wives. This is damnable, hell-bent, unnatural, comparable in some ways to contraception, sacrilege, and blasphemy. I will not name names. I hope they have left this Forum forever.

59 posted on 01/30/2016 6:50:44 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Murder, she wrote.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Nice list. Please keep it updated. You’re going to need it in these trying times. I, too, thought until this thread that the Pope had previously given the nod to homosexual marriage. Your list shows that is a wrong conclusion.


60 posted on 01/30/2016 6:54:12 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be banned and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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