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Mary, Mother of God
The Sacred Page ^ | December 29, 2015

Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer

January 1 is the Solemnity (Holy Day) of Mary, Mother of God.  To call Mary the “Mother of God” must not be understood as a claim for Mary’s motherhood of divinity itself, but in the sense that Mary was mother of Jesus, who is truly God.  The Council of Ephesus in 431—long before the schisms with the Eastern churches and the Protestants—proclaimed “Mother of God” a theologically correct title for Mary. 


So far from being a cause of division, the common confession of Mary as “Mother of God” should unite all Christians, and distinguish Christian orthodoxy from various confusions of it, such as Arianism (the denial that Jesus was God) or Nestorianism (in which Mary mothers only the human nature of Jesus but not his whole person).

Two themes are present in the Readings for this Solemnity: (1) the person of Mary, and (2) the name of Jesus.   Why the name of Jesus? Prior to the second Vatican Council, the octave day of Christmas was the Feast of the Holy Name, not Mary Mother of God.  The legacy of that tradition can be seen in the choice of Readings for this Solemnity.  (The Feast of the Holy Name was removed from the calendar after Vatican II; St. John Paul II restored it as an optional memorial on January 3.  This year it is not observed in the U.S., because Epiphany falls on January 3.)

1.  The First Reading is Numbers 6:22-27:


The LORD said to Moses:
“Speak to Aaron and his sons and tell them:
This is how you shall bless the Israelites.
Say to them:
The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon
you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and
give you peace!
So shall they invoke my name upon the Israelites,
and I will bless them.”

This Solemnity is one of the very few times that the Book of Numbers is read on a Lord’s Day or Feast Day.  Here’s a little background on the Book of Numbers:

The Book of Numbers is a little less neglected than Leviticus among modern Christian readers, if only because, unlike its predecessor, it combines its long lists of laws with a number of dramatic narratives about the rebellions of Israel against God in the wilderness, which create literary interest.  The name “Numbers” is, perhaps, already off-putting for the modern reader—it derives from the Septuagint name Arithmoi, “Numbers”, referring to the two numberings or censuses, one each of the first and second generations in the Wilderness, that form the pillars of the literary structure of the book in chs. 1 and 26.  The Hebrew name is bamidbar, “In the Wilderness,” which is an accurate description of the geographical and spiritual location of Israel throughout most of the narrative.
         The Book of Numbers has a strong literary relationship with its neighbors in the Pentateuch.  In many ways it corresponds with the Book of Exodus.  Exodus begins with the people staying in Egypt (Exodus 1-13), then describes their journey to through the desert (Exodus 14-19), and ends with them stationary at Sinai (20-36).  Numbers begins with the people staying at Sinai (Num 1-10), describes their journey through the desert (Num 11-25), and ends with them stationary on the Plains of Moab.  Sinai and the Plains of Moab correspond: at each location the people will receive a covenant (see below on Deuteronomy).  Furthermore, there are strong literary connections between the journeys through the Wilderness to and from Sinai (Ex 14-19; Num 11-25).  Both these sections are dominated by accounts of the people of Israel “murmuring” (Heb. lôn), “rebelling” (Heb. mārāh), or “striving” (Heb. rîb) against the LORD and/or Moses, together with Moses’ need for additional help to rule an unruly people (Ex 18; Num 11:16-39), and God’s miraculous provision for the people’s physical needs (Ex 15:22-17:7; Num 11:31-34; 20:1-13).  This is evidence of careful literary artistry: the central Sinai Narrative (Exod 20–Num 10) is surrounded by the unruly behavior of the people wandering in the desert.
         Numbers also has a close relationship with Leviticus.  If Leviticus established a sacred “constitution” for the life of Israel, exhibiting a logical, systematic order concluded, like a good covenant document, with a listing of blessings and curses (Lev 26), Numbers is more like a list of “amendments” to the “constitution,” together with accounts of the historical circumstances that led to their enactment.  And like the lists of amendments on many state and national constitutions, the laws have an ad hoc, circumstantial character, with little logical connection between successive “amendments.” 
         Finally, Numbers “sets the stage” for the Book of Deuteronomy, providing us the necessary information about Israel’s geographical and moral condition when they arrived at the “Plains of Moab opposite Jericho” in order to appreciate Moses’ extended homily and renewal of the covenant that he will deliver at this site in the final book of the Pentateuch.

The specific text we have in this First Reading is the famous Priestly Blessing of Numbers 6.  The formula for blessing given to the priests involves the invocation of the Divine Name (YHWH) three times over the people of Israel. 

A Brief Excursus on the Divine Name
“If they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say?” “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” say … “I AM has sent me to you” (Ex 3:13-14).  The revelation of the divine Name to Moses (Ex 3:13-15) is one of the most theologically significant passages of the Old Testament.  By revealing himself as “I AM”, God distinguishes himself from the other gods of the nations, which “are not.”  He is the only God who truly is.  Furthermore, the name “I AM” stresses that God exists of himself; unlike all other beings he does not take his existence from some other cause.  Later philosophical language will describe God as the one necessary being.  While lacking technical philosophical language, the ancients did have the concept of self-existence: in Egyptian religion, the sun-god Amon-RÄ“ “came into being by himself” and all other beings took their existence from him.  However, God reveals to Moses that it is He, the LORD—not Amon-RÄ“ or any other Egyptian god—who is the ground of being and the source of existence. 

The actual word given to Israel to serve as the Name of God is spelled YHWH in the English equivalents of the Hebrew consonants. It is not the full phrase “I AM WHO I AM” but rather an archaic form of the Hebrew verb HYH, “to be,” with the meaning “HE IS.” Out of respect for the third commandment, Jews after the Babylonian exile (c. 597–537 BC) ceased to pronounce the divine name at all, but instead substituted the title “Lord,” in Hebrew adonai, in Greek kyrios.  Thus the God of Israel is called ho kyrios, “the Lord” in the New Testament.  This sheds light on the meaning of the phrase, “Jesus is Lord!” (Rom 10:9; 1 Cor 12:3).

The Hebrew language was written without vowels until around AD 700, when Jewish scribes developed a vowel-writing system.  The form YHWH, however, was written with the vowels for adonai, the word Jews actually pronounced.  The English translators of the King James Version did not understand this system, and in a few instances combined the Hebrew consonants of YHWH (called the tetragrammaton, lit. “the four letters”) with the Hebrew vowels of adonai to form the erroneous name “Jehovah.”  Catholic tradition addresses God with neither the mistaken form “Jehovah” nor the ancient pronunciation “Yahweh,” but uses “LORD” to refer to the God of Israel, in keeping with the practice of Jesus and the Apostles.  In most English Bibles, “LORD” in caps represents YHWH in the Hebrew text, while “Lord” in lower case represents the actual Hebrew word adonai.

The concept of “name” in Hebrew culture was of great significance.  The “name” represented the essence of the person, and invoking the name made the person mystically present.  Therefore, God will speak of the manifestation of his presence in the Temple as the “dwelling of his Name” in various places of the Old Testament.
The invocation of the Name of God over the people of Israel communicates God’s presence and Spirit to them at least a mediated way. 

In post-exilic Judaism, the Divine Name (YHWH) was seldom if ever pronounced, except on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), when the High Priest would make atonement for the whole nation in the Holy of Holies, and then exit the Temple in order to bless the assembled people in the Temple courts.  There, he would pronounce the blessing of Numbers 6, including the vocalization of the Divine Name.  Every time the people would hear the Name pronounced, they would drop prostrate on the ground.  This is recorded in Sirach:

Sir. 50:20 Then Simon came down, and lifted up his hands over the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, to pronounce the blessing of the Lord with his lips, and to glory in his name, and to glory in his name;  21 and they bowed down in worship a second time, to receive the blessing from the Most High.

Similar information is recorded in the Mishnah, the second-century AD collection of rabbinic tradition and teaching that become the basis of the legal system of modern Judaism.  So in the Mishnah, tractate Yoma 3:8 and 6:2:

And [when the people heard the four letter Name] they answer after [the High Priest]: “Blessed be the Name of His glorious Kingdom forever and ever”. (M. Yoma 3:8)

Then, the priests and the people standing in the courtyard, when they heard the explicit Name from the mouth of the High Priest, would bend their knees, bow down and fall on their faces, and they would say, "Blessed be the Honored Name of His Sovereignty forever!" (M. Yoma 6:2)

We read this passage of Scripture in today’s liturgy for a variety of reasons. 

First, we gather as God’s people around the world on this, the first day of the civil year, to ask from God his blessing upon us. 

Second, we commemorate (in the Gospel) the circumcision and naming of Jesus.  For us in the New Covenant, the Name of God continues to be a source of blessing and Divine Presence, but the name we are to use is no longer YHWH but “Jesus.”  Jesus is God’s Name, the source of salvation.  When Paul speaks to the Philippians about the Name of Jesus, he may have in mind the prostrations in the Temple at the Divine Name:

Phil. 2:10  At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth …

It has never been the Christian tradition to pronounce the holy name “YHWH.”  Jesus and the Apostles practiced the Jewish piety of substituting “Lord” (‘adonai, kyrios, dominus) for the pronunciation of the Name.  For this reason, under the pontificate of Benedict XVI, the pronounced name “Yahweh” was removed from contemporary worship resources.  The sect of the Jehovah’s Witnesses insist on the pronunciation of the Name, although their form of pronunciation is erroneous, and there is nothing in Christian tradition or the New Testament to encourage such a practice.  For us, the saving name is now “Jesus,” and although full prostration at the pronunciation of the name of Jesus is impractical, Catholic piety dictates a bow of the head at the mention of the Holy Name.

2.  The Second Reading is Galatians 4:4-7:

Brothers and sisters:
When the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son,
born of a woman, born under the law,
to ransom those under the law,
so that we might receive adoption as sons.
As proof that you are sons,
God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts,
crying out, “Abba, Father!”
So you are no longer a slave but a son,
and if a son then also an heir, through God.

This Reading has ties to the Gospel, which emphasizes Mary’s role in Christ’s birth (“born of a woman”) as well as Jesus and his family being obedient Jews, faithful to the Old Covenant in submitting to circumcision (“born under the law.”)

This Reading also reminds us that Jesus calls us to Divine sonship (or childhood, if gender neutrality is desired).  Let’s not forget that this is unique to the Christian faith.  Christianity—unlike Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Atheism—is a religion about becoming children of God.  In Judaism, Divine childhood is metaphorical; in Islam, it is blasphemy.  In Eastern religions, it is irrelevant, because God is not ultimately a personal being, but rather an impersonal force or essence that animates all or simply is All.  Christianity alone holds out the possibility of familial intimacy with Creator as a son or daughter to a Father.

Let us also notice the close connection between the gift of the Holy Spirit and divine sonship.  From a legal perspective, it is the New Covenant that makes us children of God; from an ontological perspective, it is the Spirit that makes us children.  The sending of the Spirit “into our hearts,” as St. Paul says, is parallel to the inbreathing of the “breath of life” into the nostrils of Adam, causing him to become “a living being.”  So we are revivified by the Holy Spirit, as Adam was brought to life at the dawn of time.  Adam was king of the universe, as it says: “Have dominion over the over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” (Gen 1:28).  The word “dominion” (Heb radah) evokes the context of kingly rule: later it will be used of Solomon’s imperial reign (1 Kings 4:24; Ps 72:8; 110:2; 2 Chr 8:10).  So the Holy Spirit makes us royalty in Christ: as St. Paul says, “no longer a slave but a son … also an heir, through God.”  No longer a slave to what?  Sin, death, and the devil.  If we live controlled by lusts, in fear of death, and swayed by the suggestions of Satan, than we are still slaves.  If we are free of these things, then we are walking in the Spirit, as children of God.  This is a theme in the First Epistle of John, which is read during daily mass all through the Christmas season.

4.  The Gospel is Luke 2:16-21:

The shepherds went in haste to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph,
and the infant lying in the manger.
When they saw this,
they made known the message
that had been told them about this child.
All who heard it were amazed
by what had been told them by the shepherds.
And Mary kept all these things,
reflecting on them in her heart.
Then the shepherds returned,
glorifying and praising God
for all they had heard and seen,
just as it had been told to them.

When eight days were completed for his circumcision,
he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel
before he was conceived in the womb.

We note several things: Mary “kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.”  This is not only an historical indication of where St. Luke is getting his information about these events (so John Paul II [in his Wednesday audience of Jan. 28, 1987] and the Catholic tradition generally), but also a model of the contemplative vocation to which all Christians are called.  Especially during this Christmas season, up until the Baptism (Jan 13), we should carve out some time for quiet prayer, to meditate on the incredible events we celebrate and allow their meaning to sink into our hearts. 

Then we see the shepherds “glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen …”  This, too, describes the Christian’s vocation.  Pope Francis in particular has been calling us to return to the aspect of praise and joy that characterizes the disciple of Jesus.  Our faith is experiential, it is not just a philosophy.  It is an encounter with a person.  All of us should know what it means to come into contact with Jesus, to “hear and see” him.  In his First Epistle (which we are reading right now in daily mass), St. John sounds much like the shepherds:

1John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life —  2 the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us —  3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.  4 And we are writing this that our joy may be complete.

Observe the connection in this passage with “seeing” and “hearing” and the culmination in proclamation and joy.  This is what disciples of Jesus do: they experience Jesus and then proclaim in joy what they have encountered.

Finally, we see the naming of Jesus at his circumcision.  Christians no longer practice circumcision, because Baptism is the “circumcision of the heart” promised by Moses that surpasses physical circumcision (cf. Deut 10:16; 30:6; Acts 2:37; Col 2:11-12).  Yet at our Baptism, the “circumcision of our heart,” we still receive our Christian name.

The name given to Jesus is the Hebrew word y’shua, meaning “salvation.”  In the Old Testament, we are more familiar with the name under the form “Joshua,” who was an important type of Christ.  Just as Moses was unable to lead the people of Israel into the promised land, but Joshua did; so also Jesus is our New Joshua who takes us into the salvation to which Moses and his covenant could not lead us.

Salvation is now found in the Name of Jesus, because salvation means to enter into a relationship of childhood with God the Father.  It’s not that other great religious leaders (Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius etc.) claimed to be able to lead us into divine childhood, but couldn’t. It’s that they did not even claim to be able to do so.  Jesus is unique.  So Jesus says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).  This is not arrogance.  Jesus is the only great religious founder in human history to proclaim that God is a Father and we can become his children.  This concept of divine filiation is at the heart of the Gospel.  In a sense, it can be said to be the heart of the Gospel. 

On this Solemnity, let us give thanks to God that he has, through Jesus, made a way for us to become his children and receive a new name which he has given us (see Rev 2:17).  This intimate, personal relationship with God has been made possible by the cooperation of Mary, who became the mother of the one whose Name is Salvation. 


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; marymotherofgod
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To: terycarl

Your funny; too!


981 posted on 01/06/2016 5:18:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga
When Jesus’ human body died, his spirit returned to heaven and his soul went to Hell

This is sure interesting!

982 posted on 01/06/2016 5:19:15 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: HossB86
“You two are just dumber than a bag of hammers!”

If Ulysses were in this thread; he'd could make the same remark.

983 posted on 01/06/2016 5:21:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan

It all comes down to basic logic after all.


984 posted on 01/06/2016 5:22:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: terycarl
.....the Catholic church is 2,016 years old and correct.

Say...

...that's when Herod was ruling; wasn't it!

And sending them into Bethlehem, said: Go and diligently inquire after the child, and when you have found him, bring me word again, that I also may come to adore him.


Acts 12:23
Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

985 posted on 01/06/2016 5:26:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
I don’t need to explain how a woman can have a son who always existed, because it’s totally irrelevant.

Ain't you special!

986 posted on 01/06/2016 5:27:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: omegatoo
Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee:

How SOON 'before'?

987 posted on 01/06/2016 5:29:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: omegatoo
Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee:

Golly!

We mere humans get INCARNATED just like JESUS!!

I'm glad I've found this out!!

988 posted on 01/06/2016 5:30:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
This is the significance of the title, "Mother of God." It points to the Incarnation.

Ya HOO!

I can be a GOD; too!

989 posted on 01/06/2016 5:31:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

Looks like a simple typing mistake.


990 posted on 01/06/2016 5:33:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan
There is no “larger truth” that can bend or alter the laws of logic.

But there ARE appearences by 'Mary' that can 'bend or alter' the laws of Rome.

991 posted on 01/06/2016 5:34:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: The Cuban

HUH?


992 posted on 01/06/2016 5:36:02 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
If God promises to forgive our sins if we confess them, then why did Jesus allegedly give the power to retain sins to a man?

If God gave man the ability to prevent another man from being born again, why is that concept never discussed anywhere else in the bible?

993 posted on 01/06/2016 5:42:56 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Satan attacks weaklings, by demographic.)
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To: BlueDragon
Well said.

Hoss

994 posted on 01/06/2016 6:00:06 AM PST by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: terycarl
Show us where in Scripture the following terms are found explicitly. WOW, you slept through more catechism classes than even I imagined!!!

I will NEVER understand your leaving the true church, but your attempts to justify it fall far short of een common sense.....no matter how hard you try, you cannot, ever, disprove the truth....you can play with semantics, play with misinterpretations, play with just plain lack of faiith, but it all comes out the same.....the Catholic church is 2,016 years old and correct.

Instead of bloviating, how about answering her question?

Hoss

995 posted on 01/06/2016 6:01:57 AM PST by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: editor-surveyor; Syncro
Catholics have only existed since Constantine invented them in 364 AD.

Still waiting for syncro to prove a similar comment. Perhaps the two of you can collaborate and document this using legitimate secular sources.

996 posted on 01/06/2016 6:08:58 AM PST by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons.)
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To: verga; metmom; Iscool; MamaB; Syncro; boatbums; WVKayaker; MHGinTN; HossB86; lupie; Elsie; ...
Okay I have to know how many of the non-Catholics agree with Izzy that the soul and the spirit are two separate things? Izzy claims the spirit returned to heaven and the soul went to hell. How many of you all think that this is dead nuts 100% accurate? and if this is accurate prove it from scripture

Well that is quite a question, and while i do not think "dead nuts 100% accurate" is warranted, consider the following: The Scriptures do say that man has a "spirit [pneuma; breath, wind, life] and soul [psuchē; life, mind, heart] and body," (1Thes. 5:23) and that

"the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

And that "the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [rûach] shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

And both spirit and soul are described as leaving the body at death:

And it came to pass, as her soul [nephesh] was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben–oni: but his father called him Benjamin. (Genesis 35:18)

And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat. (Luke 8:54-55)

And Stephen said at his martyrdom, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit," (Acts 7:59) which was copying the Lord Jesus at His death said,

"Father, into thy hands I commend [commit] my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." (Luke 23:46) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded [aphiēmi; left, remitted..] up the ghost. (Matthew 27:50)

Yet after the resurrection,

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17)

And it also says of Christ "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." (1 Peter 3:18-19) See below on this.

Meanwhile for all true believers

...to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:21-23)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8)

Or at the Lords return:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

What is meant by spirit is a key question if the spirit of OT saints did go to be with the Lord as per Eccl. 12:7 yet "they" as meaning their conscious being or soul, might not if the theory of Abraham's bosom is true. Can the spirit be separate from the soul at death? Perhaps the spirit as referring to the animating force of the body can be discarded at death, resulting in death, and be with God who gave it, but the heart, mind, personality could be in Abraham's bosom before the atonement and res. of Christ.

The person of Christ at death could dismiss [Mt. 27:50: aphiēmi; left, remitted..] His ghost/spirit/life-giving-force to God, and then by the Holy Spirit the Lord and the "good thief (contrite criminal) went to "paradise" (Lk. 23:43) apparently Abraham's Bosom, (Lk. 16:19-31) the the abode of the OT saints, since "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins," (Hebrews 10:4) who awaited the perfect atonement of Christ (under the rubric of which God passed over damning them for sin).

Whose atonement ripped in half the heavy curtain, (Mt. 27:51) barring entrance into the holy of holiess, (Heb. 9:7,8) which believers now have immediate access to thru the Son, (Heb. 10:19) and set those comforted captives free,

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (Ephesians 4:8-9)

And thus at death,

the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. (Matthew 27:52-54)

But while yet descended the Lord also preached judgment (reject Noah=reject Christ) to such as were disobedient "unbelieving" [apeitheō, which in the rest of the NT always negatively refers to unbelieving lost], when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:20)

After which the Lord ascended with all the OT saints and then they all are basically called spirits,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. (Hebrews 12:23)

Note "made perfect/complete/fulfilled" in context pertains to that of the realization by OT believers, even great men, of the "better" (a main word and theme in Hebrews) promises resulting from the death and resurrection of Christ, with access into the holy of holies and the complete oneness of the body:

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth." (Hebrews 11:13) "And these all [OT believers], having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." (Hebrews 11:39-40) 11:39-40), with

To God be the glory, great things He hath done.

997 posted on 01/06/2016 6:22:10 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Elsie

You’re back to your old habit of changing one or two words and posting the result as though it meant something.


998 posted on 01/06/2016 6:25:22 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: BlueDragon

You have not even attempted to explain how a woman can have a son who is God without being the mother of God.

Of course, there IS no way that can happen, unless 2+2=5.


999 posted on 01/06/2016 6:27:29 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: daniel1212

“Yes” or “no” is Izzy correct did the spirit and soul of Jesus go to different places at his death. If Yes toss out some scripture to prove it. I don’tr care about stephen or any one else. Just Jesus.


1,000 posted on 01/06/2016 6:52:22 AM PST by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons.)
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