Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
You need to study some Christology. Virtually everything you say in those several paragraphs is heretical—and I’m talking about the classical Christological definitions of the first three or four Christian centuries.
Mary is the mother of God BY VIRTUE OF the fact that the flesh of Jesus Christ came from her body.
Because Jesus Christ is ONE PERSON, the eternally-existing Second Person of the Trinity, Mary is called the “mother of God.” Mary is NOT the source or origin of the DIVINE PERSON, the Second Person of the Trinity, but because she is the mother of Jesus Christ, who is ONE PERSON, Mary can be truthfully called “the mother of God.”
The body of the Risen Christ, who is in Heaven, is the SAME body that was conceived in the womb of Mary, lived in Nazareth, hung on the cross, lay dead in the tomb, and rose from the dead.
You desperately need to acquaint yourself with the Christological dogmas solemnly defined in the first several centuries after Christ.
When this happened, did not the Deity Himself become the Incarnation of Deity?
The whole Trinity?
Or don’t you believe in the Trinity and therefore God became human, as in modalism?
So you are agreeing then, that GOD died when Jesus died? Yes or no?
Before laying out what I believe or what I agree with, let us recall the words of St. Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 13, verse 9; “for we know in part.” Oh, if only we could have walked with Christ on the road to Emmaus, where, beginning with Moses and all the prophets, Jesus interpreted to Cleopas and his companion what referred to him in all the scriptures. But we weren’t there, so our beliefs can only be based on our limited understanding of the mighty works of God.
I do believe in the Trinity; that God is three consubstantial persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; that they are three distinct persons, yet are one substance, essence, or nature; that each is God, whole and entire.
I also believe that God became human; that Jesus was the Word that was in the beginning, that was with God, and that was God; that the Word became flesh when the Holy Ghost came upon Mary, and the power of the Highest overshadowed her, and that child which was conceived in her was of the Holy Ghost.
Modalism appears to be a different concept, where Jesus is not God whole and entire, but just one mode of God. I can see how this belief would be the basis for saying Mary is the mother of Jesus but not the mother of God. That Jesus is not the Godhead.
Is this what you believe?
I don’t get why there is all this HARD work and explanations of how to get around saying that Mary is the Mother of God, but not all persons of God when scripture makes that a moot exercise by the title mother of Jesus. Why go to such hard work to explain what a term does not mean when you have a perfectly good term to use?? And one that the Holy Spirit uses.
And it begs the simple question - if it is so hard to explain what you mean and what you don’t mean by a descriptive phrase, then why NOT use the simple one that everyone knows what you mean? What is the reason, what is the spirit behind all of this?
RC does that in other areas, not just the title they plop on Mary when the title mother of Jesus works. Why make life more complicated? This tells me many things.
Is that correct? May I call you Eel? Or --- Gee! --- whatever is your OWN preference...
Our soup and cornbread are all homemade from scratch. As long as we don't run out of scratch :o)
I would invite you over, but I take it you're a fur piece from where we're at. Mid-South Appalachian valley bio-region, USDA Zone 6B and all...
| Population | 65,813 |
| ZIP Code | 37601 |
| elevation | 1,634 feet |
| TOTAL | 105,048 |
I'm such a dab hand at statistics ;o}
Happy New Soup!
Sadly no. We have friends down here that do. It is very difficult to get permission to hunt on private property here and the state land is too crowded with "weekend warriors." We don't even go hiking with out wearing Blaze orange around here during season. Can you push it through the 'puter somehow so I can have a taste?? :oP
I wish I could. Really easy to make. 3 Cans generic diced tomatoes
3 Heaping tablespoons minced garlic (More or less if you like)
1 Small onion Chopped as fine as you like.
Optional chopped black olives and/ or chopped mushrooms.
Place all in a saucepan and let cook low heat for about an hour.
In a large skillet or fry pan cook up 1 1/2 to 2 lbs ground venison on a low heat. I add dry basil, oregano, minced onions, and minced garlic.
Once it is brown drain most of the liquid.
I cook up about a lb of Pasta. We prefer rotini, small shells or elbows.
I sometimes spoon some of the liquid off the sauce.
Add the sauce to the pasta and then spoon in the meat till you are satisfied with the proportion.
We add grated mozzarella, parmesan, or a blend of both on top of that.
Good post and so very true.
Come and see us in Johnson City, Tennessee,where turkeys --- I assure you --- abound. As I just explained to ealgeone, here's what you need to find me:
| Population | ` 65,813 |
| ZIP Code | ` 37 601 |
| Elevation | `` `1,634 feet |
| TOTAL | 105,048 |
I'm such a dab hand at statistics ;o}
As for me and my household, every day is Turkey Day.
Come and see us in Johnson City, Tennessee,where turkeys --- I assure you --- abound. As I just explained to ealgeone, here's what you need to find me:
| Population | ` 65,813 |
| ZIP Code | ` 37 601 |
| Elevation | `` `1,634 feet |
| TOTAL | 105,048 |
I'm such a dab hand at statistics ;o}
As for me and my household, every day is Turkey Day.
The only Magic thinking here is you who want to insist that Christianity does not have a comprehensive understanding of the Trinity, of Mary as the Mother of God, and the Two Natures in one Divine Person Jesus. What you have difficulty with is is Theology. Try not to be ignorant of your faith. Your objections thus far have been have absurdly been denying the reality that the divinity and humanity exist in one person Jesus.
Now in human terms being the mother of someone means that the someone came into existence in that mother's body.
Your mistake is here. That the motherhood implies that the existence of the person rests solely on her authorship. It does not. No mother is the sole author of the existence of Her child. They do not spontaneously conceive alone.
His Human nature came into existence in Her womb. God is outside of time. He therefore does not have a beginning or end. The Second person came into creation in her womb with Her cooperation. What the incarnation means is that Jesus came into the world as a Human being, who is both God and Man. He, outside of his creation, came into creation assuming the flesh of his creation. Once again, a twisted interpretation of the definition of Mother is at work in your understanding. It is not implied that the sole authorship of the persons existence begins in the womb.
And ya know what, Scriptures tell us that for a season He made Himself a little lower than the Angels, to be our Savior.
You are describing his humility, He is the refulgence of the Glory of God.(Heb 1:3) His condescension does not change His identity as the Son of God. For he was always in the "form of God."(Phil 2:6) The fact that infinity is contained in one person is a mystery, but if you want to believe in infinite salvation for mankind you have to put together the infinite and the finite. They exist only in one person.
Of course, you nor I can say precisely when The Son began to occupy that gestating body, but it had to be pretty early since the six months old nane in Elizabeth's body recognized His Lord's Presence.
Stop right there. What you're advocating is Adoptionism which is wrong. At no time what so ever is Jesus ever not fully God and fully Man, from the moment of his conception unto the present age. Otherwise, the divine person did not fully assume the humanity of Man. Because therefore there was a time where the nature of Jesus' humanity was not united to his divinity. What makes it so hard for Him to have fully assumed our Humanity? 1 john 2:22 speaks here.
Okie dokie, stick with your magic thinking and mischaracterize what I post, if it keeps you where you want to be, working toward salvation, swallowing the magicsteeringthem Kool-Aid. It is your spirit and God gives you the freedom to hustle heresies if it’s what you want to do. But do yourself a favor and ask yourself if Jesus existed before He took a body. If your answer is yes, then Mary is the mother of the body, not the mother of God because He pre-existed Mary even before she was being conceived. When catholic magicsteerignthem makes the assertion that Mary is the mother of God, they either define ‘mother’ differently from how it is understood in conceptyion of a baby, or they are purposely conflating in order to create a divide in reasoning into which they can insert their dogma for their empowerment not the value of the Truth made manifest and walking among men.
The religion known as Roman Catholicism today is not Christianity. It is of a different gospel, inveigled with such heresies to Christianity as making Mary much more than an Earthly Mother blessed above all women. Catholicism seeks to make a business to empower their organization, their institution. The business is salvation by their definitions, so the adherents are ever striving to obtain, and the catholic mischaracterizations of Mary the Mother of Jesus as somehow the mother of god serves the confusion the institution needs in order to promote the Mariology so rife in that religion. But it is not Christianity.
The arrogance of an pseudo-adoptionist suggesting that Catholicism is not Christianity...its amazing.
". . .sure enough, they start digging the hole deeper and deeper,. . ."
You got that right, out of the frying pan and into the fire. They do the same on several other subjects.
Details, details....
I notice that there's been no answer yet.
Ah, so you need to fabricate strawmen so you have something to post against. Your assertions are running over with false assumptions in my regard. But I do understand your need for that approach. It is, as you know full well, a form of dishonesty. Have nice day
Yes there have been. Numerous ones. What makes you think that Jesus was not God? How do you reconcile the necessity for Jesus' death on the cross to be a divine action in order for it to be efficacious?
Most of you have bad ideas about Jesus as the second person of the Trinity, His efficacious salvation, and Mary the who is Mother of God.
Well, lumpia I recognize.
I had it a couple times many years ago.
It was awesome.
No one has ever believed that "mother of God" means that Mary existed before the eternal Word, the Second Person of the Trinity. Thus, your constant, obsessive railing against that stupid belief, that NO ONE has ever believed, is absurd.
Your proposition that Mary is the mother of the BODY of Jesus only, and not the mother of the Second Person of the Trinity, is a heresy for which Luther, Calvin, Melancthon, Cromwell, and every other Protestant founder would have burned you at the stake.
You really, REALLY need to learn classical Christological dogma, which is believed in common by ALL true Catholics and ALL true Protestants.
Can't refute the point. Go get a degree in Theology than come back and convince me otherwise.
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