Mary, Mother of God

The Sacred Page ^ | December 29, 2015

[NYer]

January 1 is the Solemnity (Holy Day) of Mary, Mother of God.  To call Mary the “Mother of God” must not be understood as a claim for Mary’s motherhood of divinity itself, but in the sense that Mary was mother of Jesus, who is truly God.  The Council of Ephesus in 431—long before the schisms with the Eastern churches and the Protestants—proclaimed “Mother of God” a theologically correct title for Mary. 

So far from being a cause of division, the common confession of Mary as “Mother of God” should unite all Christians, and distinguish Christian orthodoxy from various confusions of it, such as Arianism (the denial that Jesus was God) or Nestorianism (in which Mary mothers only the human nature of Jesus but not his whole person).

Two themes are present in the Readings for this Solemnity: (1) the person of Mary, and (2) the name of Jesus.   Why the name of Jesus? Prior to the second Vatican Council, the octave day of Christmas was the Feast of the Holy Name, not Mary Mother of God.  The legacy of that tradition can be seen in the choice of Readings for this Solemnity.  (The Feast of the Holy Name was removed from the calendar after Vatican II; St. John Paul II restored it as an optional memorial on January 3.  This year it is not observed in the U.S., because Epiphany falls on January 3.)

1.  The First Reading is Numbers 6:22-27:

The LORD said to Moses:
“Speak to Aaron and his sons and tell them:
This is how you shall bless the Israelites.
Say to them:
The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon
you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and
give you peace!
So shall they invoke my name upon the Israelites,
and I will bless them.”

This Solemnity is one of the very few times that the Book of Numbers is read on a Lord’s Day or Feast Day.  Here’s a little background on the Book of Numbers:

The Book of Numbers is a little less neglected than Leviticus among modern Christian readers, if only because, unlike its predecessor, it combines its long lists of laws with a number of dramatic narratives about the rebellions of Israel against God in the wilderness, which create literary interest.  The name “Numbers” is, perhaps, already off-putting for the modern reader—it derives from the Septuagint name Arithmoi, “Numbers”, referring to the two numberings or censuses, one each of the first and second generations in the Wilderness, that form the pillars of the literary structure of the book in chs. 1 and 26.  The Hebrew name is bamidbar, “In the Wilderness,” which is an accurate description of the geographical and spiritual location of Israel throughout most of the narrative.

         The Book of Numbers has a strong literary relationship with its neighbors in the Pentateuch.  In many ways it corresponds with the Book of Exodus.  Exodus begins with the people staying in Egypt (Exodus 1-13), then describes their journey to through the desert (Exodus 14-19), and ends with them stationary at Sinai (20-36).  Numbers begins with the people staying at Sinai (Num 1-10), describes their journey through the desert (Num 11-25), and ends with them stationary on the Plains of Moab.  Sinai and the Plains of Moab correspond: at each location the people will receive a covenant (see below on Deuteronomy).  Furthermore, there are strong literary connections between the journeys through the Wilderness to and from Sinai (Ex 14-19; Num 11-25).  Both these sections are dominated by accounts of the people of Israel “murmuring” (Heb. lôn), “rebelling” (Heb. mārāh), or “striving” (Heb. rîb) against the LORD and/or Moses, together with Moses’ need for additional help to rule an unruly people (Ex 18; Num 11:16-39), and God’s miraculous provision for the people’s physical needs (Ex 15:22-17:7; Num 11:31-34; 20:1-13).  This is evidence of careful literary artistry: the central Sinai Narrative (Exod 20–Num 10) is surrounded by the unruly behavior of the people wandering in the desert.

         Numbers also has a close relationship with Leviticus.  If Leviticus established a sacred “constitution” for the life of Israel, exhibiting a logical, systematic order concluded, like a good covenant document, with a listing of blessings and curses (Lev 26), Numbers is more like a list of “amendments” to the “constitution,” together with accounts of the historical circumstances that led to their enactment.  And like the lists of amendments on many state and national constitutions, the laws have an ad hoc, circumstantial character, with little logical connection between successive “amendments.” 

         Finally, Numbers “sets the stage” for the Book of Deuteronomy, providing us the necessary information about Israel’s geographical and moral condition when they arrived at the “Plains of Moab opposite Jericho” in order to appreciate Moses’ extended homily and renewal of the covenant that he will deliver at this site in the final book of the Pentateuch.

The specific text we have in this First Reading is the famous Priestly Blessing of Numbers 6.  The formula for blessing given to the priests involves the invocation of the Divine Name (YHWH) three times over the people of Israel. 

A Brief Excursus on the Divine Name

“If they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say?” “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” say … “I AM has sent me to you” (Ex 3:13-14).  The revelation of the divine Name to Moses (Ex 3:13-15) is one of the most theologically significant passages of the Old Testament.  By revealing himself as “I AM”, God distinguishes himself from the other gods of the nations, which “are not.”  He is the only God who truly is.  Furthermore, the name “I AM” stresses that God exists of himself; unlike all other beings he does not take his existence from some other cause.  Later philosophical language will describe God as the one necessary being.  While lacking technical philosophical language, the ancients did have the concept of self-existence: in Egyptian religion, the sun-god Amon-RÄ“ “came into being by himself” and all other beings took their existence from him.  However, God reveals to Moses that it is He, the LORD—not Amon-RÄ“ or any other Egyptian god—who is the ground of being and the source of existence. 

The actual word given to Israel to serve as the Name of God is spelled YHWH in the English equivalents of the Hebrew consonants. It is not the full phrase “I AM WHO I AM” but rather an archaic form of the Hebrew verb HYH, “to be,” with the meaning “HE IS.” Out of respect for the third commandment, Jews after the Babylonian exile (c. 597–537 BC) ceased to pronounce the divine name at all, but instead substituted the title “Lord,” in Hebrew adonai, in Greek kyrios.  Thus the God of Israel is called ho kyrios, “the Lord” in the New Testament.  This sheds light on the meaning of the phrase, “Jesus is Lord!” (Rom 10:9; 1 Cor 12:3).

The Hebrew language was written without vowels until around AD 700, when Jewish scribes developed a vowel-writing system.  The form YHWH, however, was written with the vowels for adonai, the word Jews actually pronounced.  The English translators of the King James Version did not understand this system, and in a few instances combined the Hebrew consonants of YHWH (called the tetragrammaton, lit. “the four letters”) with the Hebrew vowels of adonai to form the erroneous name “Jehovah.”  Catholic tradition addresses God with neither the mistaken form “Jehovah” nor the ancient pronunciation “Yahweh,” but uses “LORD” to refer to the God of Israel, in keeping with the practice of Jesus and the Apostles.  In most English Bibles, “LORD” in caps represents YHWH in the Hebrew text, while “Lord” in lower case represents the actual Hebrew word adonai.

The concept of “name” in Hebrew culture was of great significance.  The “name” represented the essence of the person, and invoking the name made the person mystically present.  Therefore, God will speak of the manifestation of his presence in the Temple as the “dwelling of his Name” in various places of the Old Testament.

The invocation of the Name of God over the people of Israel communicates God’s presence and Spirit to them at least a mediated way. 

In post-exilic Judaism, the Divine Name (YHWH) was seldom if ever pronounced, except on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), when the High Priest would make atonement for the whole nation in the Holy of Holies, and then exit the Temple in order to bless the assembled people in the Temple courts.  There, he would pronounce the blessing of Numbers 6, including the vocalization of the Divine Name.  Every time the people would hear the Name pronounced, they would drop prostrate on the ground.  This is recorded in Sirach:

Sir. 50:20 Then Simon came down, and lifted up his hands over the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, to pronounce the blessing of the Lord with his lips, and to glory in his name, and to glory in his name;  21 and they bowed down in worship a second time, to receive the blessing from the Most High.

Similar information is recorded in the Mishnah, the second-century AD collection of rabbinic tradition and teaching that become the basis of the legal system of modern Judaism.  So in the Mishnah, tractate Yoma 3:8 and 6:2:

And [when the people heard the four letter Name] they answer after [the High Priest]: “Blessed be the Name of His glorious Kingdom forever and ever”. (M. Yoma 3:8)

Then, the priests and the people standing in the courtyard, when they heard the explicit Name from the mouth of the High Priest, would bend their knees, bow down and fall on their faces, and they would say, "Blessed be the Honored Name of His Sovereignty forever!" (M. Yoma 6:2)

We read this passage of Scripture in today’s liturgy for a variety of reasons. 

First, we gather as God’s people around the world on this, the first day of the civil year, to ask from God his blessing upon us. 

Second, we commemorate (in the Gospel) the circumcision and naming of Jesus.  For us in the New Covenant, the Name of God continues to be a source of blessing and Divine Presence, but the name we are to use is no longer YHWH but “Jesus.”  Jesus is God’s Name, the source of salvation.  When Paul speaks to the Philippians about the Name of Jesus, he may have in mind the prostrations in the Temple at the Divine Name:

Phil. 2:10  At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth …

It has never been the Christian tradition to pronounce the holy name “YHWH.”  Jesus and the Apostles practiced the Jewish piety of substituting “Lord” (‘adonai, kyrios, dominus) for the pronunciation of the Name.  For this reason, under the pontificate of Benedict XVI, the pronounced name “Yahweh” was removed from contemporary worship resources.  The sect of the Jehovah’s Witnesses insist on the pronunciation of the Name, although their form of pronunciation is erroneous, and there is nothing in Christian tradition or the New Testament to encourage such a practice.  For us, the saving name is now “Jesus,” and although full prostration at the pronunciation of the name of Jesus is impractical, Catholic piety dictates a bow of the head at the mention of the Holy Name.

2.  The Second Reading is Galatians 4:4-7:

Brothers and sisters:

When the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son,

born of a woman, born under the law,

to ransom those under the law,

so that we might receive adoption as sons.

As proof that you are sons,

God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts,

crying out, “Abba, Father!”

So you are no longer a slave but a son,

and if a son then also an heir, through God.

This Reading has ties to the Gospel, which emphasizes Mary’s role in Christ’s birth (“born of a woman”) as well as Jesus and his family being obedient Jews, faithful to the Old Covenant in submitting to circumcision (“born under the law.”)

This Reading also reminds us that Jesus calls us to Divine sonship (or childhood, if gender neutrality is desired).  Let’s not forget that this is unique to the Christian faith.  Christianity—unlike Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Atheism—is a religion about becoming children of God.  In Judaism, Divine childhood is metaphorical; in Islam, it is blasphemy.  In Eastern religions, it is irrelevant, because God is not ultimately a personal being, but rather an impersonal force or essence that animates all or simply is All.  Christianity alone holds out the possibility of familial intimacy with Creator as a son or daughter to a Father.

Let us also notice the close connection between the gift of the Holy Spirit and divine sonship.  From a legal perspective, it is the New Covenant that makes us children of God; from an ontological perspective, it is the Spirit that makes us children.  The sending of the Spirit “into our hearts,” as St. Paul says, is parallel to the inbreathing of the “breath of life” into the nostrils of Adam, causing him to become “a living being.”  So we are revivified by the Holy Spirit, as Adam was brought to life at the dawn of time.  Adam was king of the universe, as it says: “Have dominion over the over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” (Gen 1:28).  The word “dominion” (Heb radah) evokes the context of kingly rule: later it will be used of Solomon’s imperial reign (1 Kings 4:24; Ps 72:8; 110:2; 2 Chr 8:10).  So the Holy Spirit makes us royalty in Christ: as St. Paul says, “no longer a slave but a son … also an heir, through God.”  No longer a slave to what?  Sin, death, and the devil.  If we live controlled by lusts, in fear of death, and swayed by the suggestions of Satan, than we are still slaves.  If we are free of these things, then we are walking in the Spirit, as children of God.  This is a theme in the First Epistle of John, which is read during daily mass all through the Christmas season.

4.  The Gospel is Luke 2:16-21:

The shepherds went in haste to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph,

and the infant lying in the manger.

When they saw this,

they made known the message

that had been told them about this child.

All who heard it were amazed

by what had been told them by the shepherds.

And Mary kept all these things,

reflecting on them in her heart.

Then the shepherds returned,

glorifying and praising God

for all they had heard and seen,

just as it had been told to them.

When eight days were completed for his circumcision,

he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel

before he was conceived in the womb.

We note several things: Mary “kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.”  This is not only an historical indication of where St. Luke is getting his information about these events (so John Paul II [in his Wednesday audience of Jan. 28, 1987] and the Catholic tradition generally), but also a model of the contemplative vocation to which all Christians are called.  Especially during this Christmas season, up until the Baptism (Jan 13), we should carve out some time for quiet prayer, to meditate on the incredible events we celebrate and allow their meaning to sink into our hearts. 

Then we see the shepherds “glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen …”  This, too, describes the Christian’s vocation.  Pope Francis in particular has been calling us to return to the aspect of praise and joy that characterizes the disciple of Jesus.  Our faith is experiential, it is not just a philosophy.  It is an encounter with a person.  All of us should know what it means to come into contact with Jesus, to “hear and see” him.  In his First Epistle (which we are reading right now in daily mass), St. John sounds much like the shepherds:

1John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life —  2 the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us —  3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.  4 And we are writing this that our joy may be complete.

Observe the connection in this passage with “seeing” and “hearing” and the culmination in proclamation and joy.  This is what disciples of Jesus do: they experience Jesus and then proclaim in joy what they have encountered.

Finally, we see the naming of Jesus at his circumcision.  Christians no longer practice circumcision, because Baptism is the “circumcision of the heart” promised by Moses that surpasses physical circumcision (cf. Deut 10:16; 30:6; Acts 2:37; Col 2:11-12).  Yet at our Baptism, the “circumcision of our heart,” we still receive our Christian name.

The name given to Jesus is the Hebrew word y’shua, meaning “salvation.”  In the Old Testament, we are more familiar with the name under the form “Joshua,” who was an important type of Christ.  Just as Moses was unable to lead the people of Israel into the promised land, but Joshua did; so also Jesus is our New Joshua who takes us into the salvation to which Moses and his covenant could not lead us.

Salvation is now found in the Name of Jesus, because salvation means to enter into a relationship of childhood with God the Father.  It’s not that other great religious leaders (Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius etc.) claimed to be able to lead us into divine childhood, but couldn’t. It’s that they did not even claim to be able to do so.  Jesus is unique.  So Jesus says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).  This is not arrogance.  Jesus is the only great religious founder in human history to proclaim that God is a Father and we can become his children.  This concept of divine filiation is at the heart of the Gospel.  In a sense, it can be said to be the heart of the Gospel. 

On this Solemnity, let us give thanks to God that he has, through Jesus, made a way for us to become his children and receive a new name which he has given us (see Rev 2:17).  This intimate, personal relationship with God has been made possible by the cooperation of Mary, who became the mother of the one whose Name is Salvation. 

[Syncro]

Alas, the personal interpretation of followers of the bishop of Rome have twisted the plain meaning of what the "first" bishop of Rome wrote.

Alas my friend, thus begun the foundation of the Catholic Church which got it's start a couple of centuries later.

[Syncro]

Um, no. 2 Peter 1:20, which states that "no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation."

That does not address the post replied to but good diversion. Christians on this board to not give "private interpretations" but follow the leading of the Holy Spirit to correct error and show the Glory of God.

Mormons don't answer the question (statement) asked/expressed instead address what they think should have been asked/stated.

Are you a former Mormon?

[kinsman redeemer]

Are you a former Mormon?

I like to play with words. I would call that a "Formon."

[DungeonMaster]

Now you tell us! Don't do that without a qualifying statement, while i could have provided you with some more , including from the idolator De Montfort. Sorry for rebuking you as if you were engaging in the same, but that was outlandish. On the other hand, i can and do engage in idolatry whenever something created becomes my highest object of spiritual affection, object of allegiance, or source of security, but which is not the same as formally ascribing to created beings what belongs to God alone.

I just read in 1 John "Little children keep yourself from idols. Good Christian humility considers all that might be called an idol in his life just like you do. I have problems too like TV and my Harley and following politics. But this exaltation of Mary leaves me speechless, that's why I just posted the depths of its depravity. I actually appreciate the outrage you and others expressed even if a little was aimed at me (my fault).

But so you know, RCs will deny that, no matter how it looks and sounds, the adulation they engage in is not actually (crossing that fine line into) "adoration," which is worship in Catholic nomenclature, which V2 teaches they and Muslims engage in toward the same God.

Yes I've noticed extensive use of synonyms that mean worship but are not the exact word "worship". Even in the "magnificat(sp)" there is the invention of language with such adulation because she spoke.

As often said, one would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, and giving glory and titles and ascribing attributes to such which are never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers individually addressed to them

Which manner of adulation would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine that by playing word games then they can avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

[kinsman redeemer]

So doing it 400 times or more is playing it forward?

Yeah. I guess it's like "money in the bank." So I wonder if you can pay ahead with the 50-cent candles, too. I guess saints paid ahead, right? It takes time to be a saint.

So what about your question re. 400 repetitions? I was wondering about that because when you do the "Rosary" (use a capital "R" because a lowercase "r" refers to just one bead of the Rosary). I digress.

When you do the Rosary, how many "Hail Marys" do you knock out? The answer is apparently 53 (fifty three). [Let's keep up the legal nature of the subject.]

Here's the rub: If you pray 2 (two) Rosaries, then you gotta knock out 153 (one hundred fifty three) of those bad boys. Wait! What?

Don't ask me, I don't make the rules!

Anyway, 2 (two) Rosaries cost me 16.9575 minutes of my valuable time. That's JUST the HAIL MARYS - for "goodness" sake! What time does BINGO start??

Anyway, Here's an easy-to-understand guide to Vain Repetitions:

HOW TO PRAY THE ROSARY The rosary is divided into five groups of ten beads called decades. As we pray the rosary we meditate on the events of Our Lord's life and Passion, which are called Mysteries. The repetition of the prayers assists in this prayerful meditation. The rosary, in essence, is a compendium of the Gospel and leads us, through the intercession of Our Lady, to contemplate Jesus Christ. Find all the prayers of the rosary here. Begin by praying the Sign of the Cross. 1. On the crucifix pray the Apostles Creed. The rosary begins with 1 Our Father and 3 Hail Marys for an increase in the virtues of faith, hope, and love: 2. On the first rosary bead, pray the Our Father. 3. On each of the next three beads pray the Hail Mary. After the last Hail Mary, pray the Glory Be & the Fatima prayer. Next you will pray 1 Our Father and 10 Hail Marys for each rosary mystery. You can find the 5 rosary mysteries here. 4. Announce the first mystery, and then pray the Our Father. (Ex: “The first Joyful Mystery is the Annunciation.”) 5. Pray 10 Hail Marys. After the last Hail Mary pray the Glory Be and the Fatima prayer. 6. Announce the second mystery, and then pray the Our Father. (Ex: “The second Joyful Mystery is the Visitation.”) 7. Pray 10 Hail Marys. After the last Hail Mary pray the Glory Be and the Fatima prayer. 8. Continue to pray 1 Our Father and 10 Hail Marys three more times, announcing the third, fourth, and fifth mysteries before each decade. After the last Hail Mary pray the Glory Be and the Fatima prayer. Lastly, pray the Hail Holy Queen and the concluding prayer. The rosary takes fifteen to twenty minutes to pray. The rosary is a means of grace and has many spiritual benefits. Many saints have encouraged praying the rosary daily. It helps you to grow in virtue, helps you overcome life's problems, and works as a spiritual weapon. Read the 15 promises of the Blessed Virgin Mary to those who pray the rosary.

[kinsman redeemer]

The following quote is modified from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to fifty three, no more, no less. Fifty three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be fifty three. Fifty four shalt thou not count, neither count thou fifty two, excepting that thou then proceed to fifty three. Fifty five is right out. Once the number fifty three, being the fifty third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

[ealgeone]

Of all the major translations the douay-rheims is in the distinct minority that translate the passage in Luke in the manner suggested by roman catholics.

[omegatoo]

How do you know that my interpretations are not expressed with the help of the Holy Spirit? How can you tell?

As a Christian, I regularly back up my interpretations with scripture.

Just because an interpretation agrees with that of the Catholic Church does not make it wrong, which is the assumption made by many non-Catholics here, which is what I was alluding to.

Also, your feeble attempt at an insult by implying that Catholics are not included in your description of Christians and that Catholics don’t use the Bible, reflects poorly on you and only serves to broadcast your anti-Catholic bias.

Love,
O2

[Syncro]

It’s you that said others comments are “better than mine”

I was just explaining why, I don’t know your heart.

Not going with your erroneous assumptions in order to get a subtle dig into non-Catholics.

I often describe those that are not Catholic as Christians because I see so much in Catholicism that is NOT Biblical Christianity.

Not to mention a lot of Catholic when asked if they are Christian, they reply no I am a Catholic.
My bias isn’t towards Catholics, but towards the Catholic belief system with all of it’s un Biblical pronouncements.

See some of my quotes on this thread about the exaltation of priests to be higher than Jesus, snatch Him off of His throne in heaven and get Him to bow down to them and then squish him into a wafer.

“Love,
O2”

I don’t see the love o2

[rwa265]

The rosary is much more than a vain repetition of Hail Marys. I have greatly benefited from reflecting on Scripture while praying the rosary.

Here is the introduction from a website that explains how to meditate on Scripture while praying the rosary:

The meditations on the rosary that accompany each mystery are the soul of the Rosary. They are what give the Rosary it’s life, purpose and power.

The Rosary isn’t simply reciting prayers from memory. It is so much more. It is one of the most beneficial ways of praying for it unites both vocal and mental prayer.
Contemplating these mysteries in the life of Jesus and Mary will excite in you a deep love and reverence for God.

This relationship with God will sustain you throughout your life.

Here you will get a glimpse of the deep meaning behind each event recounted in the Rosary mysteries.

http://www.how-to-pray-the-rosary-everyday.com/meditations-on-the-rosary.html

[ealgeone]

If anyone is relying placing all of their hope on Mary’s to get them to their salvation they are not Christian. That false teaching is not anywhere in the Word.

[kinsman redeemer]

Oh. O.K.

[metmom]

And yet you can go right to the Word and read it an meditate on it itself.

You can memorize it and thus meditate on it when you can’t read or are otherwise busy with your hands but have the brain free.

Psalm one promises a blessing for those who mediate on the word of God.

No need to add any extraneous prayers that could distract.

Spiritual activity does not have to be filtered through Mary, the rosary, the church, any church.

Jesus gave us direct access to the Father to come to Him boldly.

[ealgeone]

From the link you provided:

.....Mary is the perfect advocate and mother to you because Jesus fulfills every one of Mary's requests. Bring all your worries and concerns to her and she will present them to Jesus her Son on your behalf.

There's nothing in the Word about anyone filtering anything through Mary.

There is a whole bunch on casting your cares on Him.

And this is one of the ways cults claim to be Christian. Mix in just enough truth with a little false teaching and the your focus is no longer on Christ alone. Now you need Jesus plus Mary.....or rather Mary plus Jesus

Much of the rosary is a focus on Mary. Sure Christ is mentioned but the attention is on Mary primarily. This is why Christians should reject the rosary.

[kinsman redeemer]

It’s a cult.

That’s how it is.

[The Cuban]

Yea because there is only one Catholic Church and thousands of protestant Churches who find the fact that Mary was indeed filled with God’s grace uncomfortable in its implications.

[The Cuban]

That is the most illogical thing I’ve read on this post.

[Syncro]

Made sense to me cause you did not reply to the issue posted to you:

That does not address the post replied to but good diversion. Christians on this board to not give "private interpretations" but follow the leading of the Holy Spirit to correct error and show the Glory of God.

Truth is illogical? Ahhhh, OK....

Funny how so many posters that don't understand what is really going on make up things about Christians.

[ealgeone]

No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056

Catholicism's own encyclopedia disagrees with you on the immaculate conception.