"God is Father and Mother":Pope calls for "revolution of tenderness" and criticizes his own Church.

Rorate Caeli ^ | 12/03/15 | Augustinus

[ebb tide]

ZENIT has published an English translation of Pope Francis' interview with "Credere", the official magazine of the Jubilee of Mercy. We are posting the most important sections here; emphases ours. At the end of this article is our commentary on the extreme danger posed to the Catholic faith by the Pope's assertion that God is "Father and Mother". And then there is the, by now, depressingly familiar line about how the Church "excludes people" and is too legalistic, following a "hard line", "stressing only the moral rules."

The Italian text of the interview was published on the Vatican website yesterday, December 2, 2015. We repeat: the original of this interview is on the VATICAN WEBSITE.

[Zionist Conspirator]

And then there is the, by now, depressingly familiar line about how the Church "excludes people"

Well, he's right. I got kicked out for believing the stuff in the Bible actually happened. I guess "inclusion" doesn't include people like me.

[MeshugeMikey]

the world? as a Sacrament...of His communion evidently....

Certainly not an orthodox view in any way shape or form.

we must SHARE...at the muzzle of a gun.....

[Zionist Conspirator]

Discarding the “new testament” would get rid of these questions.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Whatever any one Catholic wants to believe seems to be fine with the hierarchy.

Except that everything in the Bible actually happened as written, and that it can have no mistakes of any kind on any subject whatsoever. That's "Protestant," and appears to be the one and only absolute requirement for membership in the Catholic Church.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

Q: "Is the Pope Catholic? Do bears walk in the woods?"
A: Not any more, and we're working on the bears next.
(Sorry couldn't resist)

[G Larry]

Oh?

What does it sound like?

[ebb tide]

I guess "inclusion" doesn't include people like me.

Maybe it's because you only believe in the Old Testament and not the New Testament?

I've asked you before, and I'm asking again:

Do believe that Jesus Christ is God?

[Zionist Conspirator]

Maybe it's because you only believe in the Old Testament and not the New Testament?

You actually can't figure out that this wasn't so back then? Where's that Catholic intellect???

Do believe that Jesus Christ is God?

Not anymore.

[ebb tide]

Not anymore.

I'm sorry to hear that.

[sparklite2]

“Except that everything in the Bible actually happened as written, and that it can have no mistakes of any kind “

That’s fine if you’re into sola scriptura. But the Bible is just the launching point for two thousand years of tradition, which grow into authority equal to scripture, per the RCC.

[sparklite2]

I don’t know about discarding the NT. I mean, that God is all touchy-feely smoochy. The God of the OT was into mass extermination.

[sparklite2]

Boogieman has nailed it. Jesus is not in a human body.

[Zionist Conspirator]

"Except that everything in the Bible actually happened as written, and that it can have no mistakes of any kind"

That's fine if you're into sola scriptura. But the Bible is just the launching point for two thousand years of tradition, which grow into authority equal to scripture, per the RCC.

::Sigh:: There you people go again. You see this, ebb?

What in the name of all that is reasonable does the historical accuracy of the Bible have to do with sola scriptura??? I'll tell you what--NOTHING, that's what! But you Catholics simply can't seem to tell the difference.

Would it surprise you to learn that I also reject sola scriptura and believe in an authoritative oral interpretive tradition? Because I do.

I did not say I believed in sola scriptura. I said I believed that everything described in the Bible actually happened (the one exception here is the Book of Job which may--may, mind you--be a parable, because this is a possibility taught by the Tradition (and not by some skeptical "higher critic" of the Bible).

I'm sick and tired of hearing "sola scriptura" constantly being invoked as the reason that Catholics believe that Adam and Eve, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Nimrod, and the Tower of Babel are "fairy tales." Because your implication that nineteenth century German criticism is of equal authority to the Bible is hogwash. Ancient tradition, yes--modern skepticism, no.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I don’t know about discarding the NT. I mean, that God is all touchy-feely smoochy. The God of the OT was into mass extermination.

Now you've lost me.

You sound more like an atheist than a Catholic.

[Boogieman]

Here’s something to think about though: we won’t be in “human” bodies forever either, because the Bible says we will be “glorified” as well, and be “like” Jesus, in that respect.

So, would we cease to be human if God gave us a new glorified body? Does our body define our humanity?

[sparklite2]

Sins of the flesh; the way of all flesh... The Bible is full of references that equate being human to being of the flesh. If we define humanity as of the flesh, then when we leave the flesh, we leave humanity. Unless we get fleshed bodies in the afterlife, I would think we cease to be human.

[ebb tide]

I said I believed that everything described in the Bible actually happened (the one exception here is the Book of Job which may--may, mind you--be a parable, because this is a possibility taught by the Tradition (and not by some skeptical "higher critic" of the Bible).

I don't think you do believe in what you what claim above. It's obvious.

Matthew 3:17 And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.

Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son; hear him.

Mark 9:6 And there was a cloud overshadowing them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my most beloved son; hear ye him.

[Jeff Chandler]

if you say yes, and Jesus is part of the Trinity, does that make God partially human, too?

Christians believe that Jesus IS God. God the Son, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

[Jeff Chandler]

God and Jesus

Christians believe Jesus IS God.

[Boogieman]

Hear, hear!

They are two separate but related questions. One, of the accuracy or inerrancy of the Bible, and the other of where the authority lies for defining doctrine. Sola Scriptura deals mainly with authority, but it also implies a certain view on inerrancy by default. So that is where the opening is for people to conflate the two issues when attacking Sola Scriptura.

Another trick that is often used is subtly (or not so subtly) altering the definition of Sola Scriptura in order to attack it more easily. I often hear people make silly points that a Protestant shouldn’t believe in something because “it’s not in the Bible”, as an attack on Sola Scriptura. Yet, the principle dictates nothing about what sources of truth are valid, it simply defines one source as the highest authority, disallowing any contradictory sources when it comes to doctrine.

There’s nothing radical in principle about that kind of rule, because it is an outgrowth of defining God as the highest authority, being the original author and definer of the truth. One can argue whether extending that authority to the Bible is proper or not, or whether there should be some exceptions made, but to argue that accepting such an authority doesn’t allow you to accept other, lesser authorities in a subordinate way is just illogical.