Posted on 10/30/2015 11:11:35 AM PDT by fishtank
Reformation Reminders: Rome & Her Desecration of Christ
By Eric Davis
OCTOBER 28, 2015
This Saturday, October 31, commemorates nearly 500 years since one of the greatest movements of God in church history; the Protestant Reformation. Up to the time of the Reformation, much of Europe had been dominated by the reign of Roman Catholicism. To the populace was propagated the idea that salvation was found under Rome and her system alone.
But as the cultural and theological fog cleared in Europe and beyond, God's people gained a clarity that had been mostly absent for centuries. The Reformers gained this clarity from keeping with a simple principle: sola scritpura, or, Scripture alone. As they searched the word of God, they discovered that Rome deviated radically on the most critical points of biblical Christianity. With one mind, God's people discerned from Scripture that, tragically, Roman Catholicism was a desecration to the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecripplegate.com ...
I asked the question first.
You need a reading comprehension course. The only way it could be valid is if the nutritionist had God's authority and credibility. That point was made. No one does. Again, broccoli isn't 'good' for everyone, God's Word OTOH is, unless that contradicts Catholic doctrine.
Later you spoke of truth. Now I know this is again from the Bible, John 17: 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them[b] in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself,[c] that they also may be sanctified[d] in truth.
God's Word is truth, not Catholic doctrine. But what does Jesus know?
You claimed Jesus gave His authority to the Apostles and by extension the rest of Catholic leadership. I asked where did He do it? I can’t prove a negative. He didn’t give ‘all authority in heaven and earth’ to anyone.
So Christ's authority only consists of those items? The claim was made '“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."' was given to the Apostles. 'ALL' of it given? Don't think so despite the claims of Catholics.
Or do you consider accusing Catholics of the Desecration of Christ just good natured chatter?
Yes, Jesus gave authority to the apostles. This does not mean that authority passed onto the catholic church.
Matthew 10:1 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.
Did this authority get passed on? What pope, catholic bishop or priest can heal "every disease and every affliction"?
So which authorities given to the apostles passed on to the catholic church? Clearly not all. (See above)
Other than catholic say-so, why should we believe that any special apostolic authority passed from the apostles to the catholic church?
Maybe you could learn more history.
No. And you're confusing the substitution of a part for the whole with two "competing" entities.
It really is a matter of which is God's authority. The CC or Scripture.
There is no conflict.
Since much of which the CC espouses is contrary to Scripture it cannot be both. One is right and the other is wrong.
Unsubstantiated assertion, followed by irrelevancy.
Since the entire Bible extols God's Word as authoritive, never changing and unbreakable, I go with His Word.
Simplistic. Protestantism (as least as displayed on FR, for the most part) is stupefyingly flat and two-dimensional, binary if you will. No depth, no texture, no richness.
Not sure if you mean by “intellectual history” what I’ve always understood it to mean — the history of ideas, as distinct from political, military, social, etc. history.
After all, the Declaration of Independence was breathtaking it said in effect, we are going to overthrow a nation based on one idea and establish a nation based on a new idea. Imagine that, a nation based on an idea!
The idea? All men are created equal and the government must operate only with the consent of the people. A distinct departure from the government operating under George III even so far as it was tempered by Parliament and a far greater departure from the feudal and semifeudal governments operating in Europe in 1517.
Martin Luther came up with an idea of doing away with the exclusive intercession of the church between God and man. As the church lost the exclusive office to explain God to the penitent so it ultimately lost the power to legitimate kings and emperors. The old ideas were undermined.
Ideas have power. A Hundred million people have died because of ideas written down by Karl Marx. Billions more have been protected by the ideas written down by Martin Luther and by Thomas Jefferson, to name a few. The power of Luther's ideas was extraordinary, extraordinary for good but also extraordinary for barbarity when misapplied. Nevertheless, the idea which found first widespread attention by the publication of those 95 theses led, perhaps not inexorably but ultimately, to sublime expression of the ideas of Thomas Jefferson.
As I understand it, he strengthened the state against the Church, which was the only rein on the power of the state.
Anyway, what is this "exclusive intercession" of which you speak? Never existed that I know of. I suspect your main sources here are ultimately secular historians (the type who write high school and college history textbooks), who all celebrated the Reformation because they saw it as a giant step toward the destruction of Christianity.
The logical principle holds. It has nothing to do with setting up some kind of straw man pretending that I've somehow equated nutritionists with God.
I realize Catholics put the Word of God on par with their Church’s tradition and teachings. Saying that ‘broccoli is good for you therefore eat only broccoli’ isn’t equivalent to what God says about His Word.
Please rake a logic course.
What state? In Luther's Germany there was no Germany but a collection of 300 or 400 principalities. It would be left to Bismarck 400 years later to sow them all together. So it was not increasing the power of the German state. But there were, of course, other states in Europe which were reinforced by the church and its was the breaking of the connection 'tween church and state to which Luther pointed the way. That is one of the reasons why the French revolution was so violently anti-clerical, because the church had cut its deals with the state to the detriment of outsiders.
Anyway, what is this "exclusive intercession" of which you speak? Never existed that I know of.
Really? There was a free market in the sale of indulgences? There were sources from which indulgences could be had cheaper than from this exclusive source? Who knew? Must have been a black market my histories never mentioned.
Here I stand I can do no other!
And all those princes wanted to be free of the restrictions the Church set on their power and Luther gave them the opening.
And you a spelling class. Humans can be understood by logic, God is apprehended by faith.
Where do you find humans who can be understood by logic? I don't think I've ever met one! ;-)
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