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To: redleghunter
It is clear you did not see the connection of God communicating that He would put His Spirit and cause one to walk in His statutes, with “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them;and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Christ explained to Nicodemus clearly born of the Spirit is an action of God not man.

and yet the Evangelical model for this seems to me to be the Sinner's Prayer or the Four Spiritual Laws. Do you deny the Sinner's Prayer and Four Spiritual Laws are how Evangelicals tell people to be born again ?

The dialogue in John 3 confirms the promise of Ezekiel 36.

The writers of the New Testament did not cite the passage in Ezekiel to which you refer. The promise in Ezekiel is to the house of Israel.

What is the official interpretation of the Catholic church for these passages?

I find this reference in The Catechism of the Catholic Church

In the Old Testament the prophets announced that the Spirit of the Lord would rest on the hoped-for Messiah for his saving mission.91 The descent of the Holy Spirit on Jesus at his baptism by John was the sign that this was he who was to come, the Messiah, the Son of God.92 He was conceived of the Holy Spirit; his whole life and his whole mission are carried out in total communion with the Holy Spirit whom the Father gives him “without measure.”93 (702-716)
1287 This fullness of the Spirit was not to remain uniquely the Messiah’s, but was to be communicated to the whole messianic people.94

94 Cf. Ezek 36:25-27; Joel 3:1-2.

And what do you have to refute my original point that God promises to cause one filled with His Spirit to walk in His statutes?

Post 103: " I believe a lot of the answers you seek to questions posed can be found in Ezekiel 36. This is where God promises to indwell a believer, put His statutes on their heart and cause them to walk in them. Jesus was teaching this to Nicodemus in John 3. "

    The scripture reference is covering
  1. The house of Israel, not a believer.
  2. Neither faith, nor repentance are listed as preconditions for being born again.
  3. The heathen (Gentiles) will learn from this that the LORD whose name was profaned by the dispersion of the house of Israel is sanctified in the regathering of the house of Israel to the land of Israel.
  4. After the LORD restores them to the land of Israel, the LORD sprinkles clean water on them to wash away all their filthiness, and they are clean. Do you think this is Believers' Baptism ?
  5. This sprinkling seems closer to the Catholic view of Baptism :



    THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM

    1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water and in the word.”5

    I. What Is this Sacrament Called?

    1214 This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to “plunge” or “immerse”; the “plunge” into the water symbolizes the catechumen’s burial into Christ’s death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as “a new creature.”6 (628)

    1215 This sacrament is also called “the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit,” for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one “can enter the kingdom of God.”7 (1257)

    1216 “This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding....”8 Having received in Baptism the Word, “the true light that enlightens every man,” the person baptized has been “enlightened,” he becomes a “son of light,” indeed, he becomes “light” himself:9 (1243)

    Baptism is God’s most beautiful and magnificent gift.... We call it gift, grace, anointing, enlightenment, garment of immortality, bath of rebirth, seal, and most precious gift. It is called gift because it is conferred on those who bring nothing of their own; grace since it is given even to the guilty; Baptism because sin is buried in the water; anointing for it is priestly and royal as are those who are anointed; enlightenment because it radiates light; clothing since it veils our shame; bath because it washes; and seal as it is our guard and the sign of God’s Lordship.10
    The scripture in John
  1. makes no reference to Ezekiel
  2. elevates the Son of Man
  3. requires faith to have everlasting life

130 posted on 11/02/2015 5:35:52 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

What was the spiritual condition of Nicodemus when he came to Jesus by night, as revealed in John 3? ... A catholic apologist’s answer will be different than the actual state of him, because there are two very different perspectives. I’m curious how you would identify the spiritual state of Nicodemus when he came to Jesus, noit after he had heard the message.


131 posted on 11/02/2015 6:45:42 AM PST by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: af_vet_1981

You continue to change the subject. I quoted OT and NT Holy Scriptures. That’s the sum of it. Yet you want to discuss the sinners prayer and the 4 spiritual laws. Show me where such is in the language of my posts?

Answer...not there. I can only assume you wish to be a contentious man.

If you desire to view a sinners prayer, the Holy Spirit provided us quite a few. The following my favorite:

Psalm 51King James Version (KJV)

51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain

Your comments on Ezekiel 36 are partially correct. They are for the house of Israel. Which Chirst opened for all nations as prophesied in the OT, confirmed by Christ in Luke 24, and fulfilled in Acts.


137 posted on 11/02/2015 12:10:29 PM PST by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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