Posted on 10/08/2015 8:02:23 AM PDT by Salvation
Dear eagleone
I believe you may feel left out of our Catholic love so I am proposing that every Catholic on this thread say a Rosary specifically for eagleone so he can truly be the object of Catholic love.
I will make you my intention on my very next Rosary late tonight / early tomorrow morning.
For the Greater Glory of God
I agree with you compleely about understanding the original languages.
If you pray for me, I would ask you to direct your prayers to the Lord instead.
Yes, words really *do* mean something. And you can label someone’s comments “eisegesis” and that means nothing unless you also prove that it is. You can also try to confuse the issue, but eagleone’s interpretation was perfectly legitimate from what was written. Like it or not, the Monsignor was casting Mary’s love as better with the terms He used. In effect He was saying it was better for someone in his position, at that time in his life. And that is certainly a statement for Christians to object to.
Of course it is, how would you feel about a muslim telling you what the sixth chapter of the Gospel of St. John meant? Or a mormon, or an SDA, or a JW? That last batch spends a pile of time studying it but they know nothing of to whom it was written or what it means. Let's come a step closer, how about Oneness Pentecostals? They join in on the attacks against Catholicism here and are generally left alone by traditional (if that word can be applied) Protestants, but THOSE people can't even find the Holy Trinity in Sacred Scripture. So too most Protestants can't find Transubstantiation (or any variation of it) in Holy Writ.
Big deal, it's not their book, they're flipping around in someone else's photo album and applying names to the images they find without knowing the history of the family.
HOWEVER, just as Samaritans contemporary to Our Lord's earthly life were not responsible for the sins of their ancestors, modern Protestants are not responsible for the divisions that now exist. That's the only way I can sleep nights. Otherwise you're all damned for being outside the barque of Peter and I just can't wrap my mind around that.
Is it acceptable that many Catholics don't know their own "album"? Certainly not, they're in trouble moreso than those outside the Fold... I hope.
Would you go along with calling Mary, as the mother of the King of the Jews, the Queen Mother?
Oh the hoops some catholic minds will leap through backwards, to avoid seeing the obvious truth about the religion that is catholiciism, not Christianity.
Hate to burst your little bubble, but the Word is not a "roman catholic" book. It is God's Word given to us so that we may come to know how to have eternal life. And please, none of this "we gave you the Bible" nonsense either.
So too most Protestants can't find Transubstantiation (or any variation of it) in Holy Writ.
Well, I don't know about protestants, but Christians cannot find it in John 6 as it is not in in John 6.
In this chapter, if read in context and context is the key to this chapter, it is clear to have eternal life one has to believe in Christ. "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 6:40.
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. John 6:47.
Jesus therefore said to the twelve, "You do not want to to away also, do you?" Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. And we have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God." John 6:66-69.
HOWEVER, just as Samaritans contemporary to Our Lord's earthly life were not responsible for the sins of their ancestors, modern Protestants are not responsible for the divisions that now exist. That's the only way I can sleep nights. Otherwise you're all damned for being outside the barque of Peter and I just can't wrap my mind around that.
For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
No mention of being a member of the roman catholic church as it stands today.
Thanks for your well researched and reasoned responses.
Mary’s love helps me to be kinder, and that’s good enough for me; those who state they are Christian but who disparage Mary, are always ragging about things. Why is that? No human could love Jesus more than Mary, so she becomes a [very good] friend to have for anyone who loves her Son.
“To be clear on one thing though....the Bible is not YOUR book...It is the Word of God and is open to ALL who wish to study and learn.”
AMEN, Brother! I get mad when Catholics arrogate to themselves the God-breathed Word. It was not Catholics who announced the Gospel in advance to Abraham, but SCRIPTURE:
“And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”—Galatians 3:8
Thank you, Father, for Scripture.
Who compiled the Bible? Do you actually know?
“No human could love Jesus more than Mary, so she becomes a [very good] friend to have for anyone who loves her Son.”
Sensual reasoning, since:
“For there is no respect of persons with God.”—Romans 2:11 DR
“Who compiled the Bible? Do you actually know?”
Jews.
Jews compiled the New Testament?
That’s news to me.
“Jews compiled the New Testament?...That’s news to me.”
How about: WERE USED BY GOD TO WRITE IT.
Compiled it? Perhaps you need a refresher warning about boasting over the natural branches (see Romans: 11)
God's Word is given to the People of God, who are found within the confines of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church comprises all those churches throughout the world which are in union with the Roman Church. It has been so since the time of the Apostles. The Church has grown larger and she has also grown up. Just because the people are no longer meeting in secret in private homes doesn't make the Church any less THE Church.
The Church doesn't do everything the way it used to BECAUSE it has grown into a connected body of over 1 billion (putative) members. It's like a seed that was planted and then actually GREW. It doesn't look like a seed anymore, if it did then it would be a colossal failure.
It may well happen that the institutional structures of the Church will collapse globally due to the insanity of the present synod (or sin nod, as the case seems to be shaping up). Whole churches, (aka dioceses) and even entire nations, could fall into apostasy, but the Church will still be the People of God united in belief and practice with the Roman Church.
What it will assuredly NOT be is some group of people who set themselves up in opposition to the true Church, slap a spire on their building and call themselves Mount Holy Olive Second Baptist Zion Church of God in Christ of Resurrected Latter-Days AME or what have you.
Kneel before statue of Mary? check
It is not necessary to kneel or be anywhere near a statue to pray. We are not praying to the statue. We do not believe the statue holds any power. It simply helps us focus and picture who we are talking to.
Pray to Mary? check
Yes, we pray to Mary. And other saints. We believe the saints in heaven can hear us. There is no injunction not to pray to them. We believe the wedding of Cana was a specific demonstration of how Mary can mediate with Jesus for us. You may interpret that scripture differently, but your interpretation has no more validity than mine does. Jesus may have rebuked her, but He did exactly what she said He would. He said it was not yet His time, but then He performed His first miracle. Because His mother asked Him to. Would he have done it if someone else had asked? We often ask Mary to pray for us, just as sometimes as children we asked Mom to ask Dad for something for us. Sometimes Dad has a harder time saying no to Mom than to us.
Rely upon Mary for her to answer prayers? check
We rely on Mary to intercede for us. Does she have any power to effect events on earth? Possibly, if God grants it to her. As would any of the saints if God wills it. The power is God's whether it goes through a saint or not. The rich man was able to ask Abraham to send Lazarus. Abraham said he wouldn't, not because he couldn't, but because Abraham knew his brothers wouldn't listen. But the decision was God's, through Abraham, because Abraham would not be able to do anything that was contrary to God's will.
Rely upon Mary to intercede for them? check
asked and answered.
Sometimes ask Mary to answer prayers when Christ will not? check
Mary would never do anything contrary to God's will. If she has power to answer prayers herself, that power would come through her from God, so she can only do His will. As at Cana, though, she may hold more sway with Him than anyone else does.
"I have no idea what's in your heart" -snip-"Actually it is the catholic who is bearing false witness by continuing to "pretend" they are not worshipping Mary"
You do realize that those two statements are mutually exclusive, don't you?
Love, O2
P.S
Why would you want Lurking, or anyone else, to pray for you? That would be asking for mediation between you and God and that would be a hateful insult to the only Mediator who is Jesus.
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