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To: af_vet_1981
Fifteen Significant Differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming

A number of significant differences are found in the description of the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ.

At the Rapture Jesus comes for His own [church age believers], at the Second Coming Jesus comes with His own [church age believers].

At the time of the Rapture Jesus comes only in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), at the Second Coming Jesus comes to the earth (Revelation 19:11-18).

At the Rapture, living saints receive resurrection bodies (1 Thessalonians 4:17), at the Second Coming, no living believers receive resurrection bodies.

At the Rapture translated saints go to heaven, at the Second Coming translated saints go to earth.

At the Rapture, Jesus comes in the air and returns to heaven (John 14:3), at the Second Coming Jesus establishes His kingdom on the earth.

At the Rapture, there is no judgment on the unsaved upon the earth, the Second Coming concludes God�s judgments on the earthdwellers.

At the Rapture Christ claims His bride, at the Second Coming Christ comes with His bride.

The Rapture delivers the saints from the wrath to come, the Second Coming concludes the wrath to come (Daniel�s seventieth week).

The Rapture is imminent and its proximity is not announced by any prophetic signs; the Second Coming is preceded by specific, recognizable signs.

The Rapture involves only the saved of the church age, the Second Coming involves all on the earth.  The saved of the Old Testament are resurrected after the Second Coming.

The Rapture is not mentioned in the Old Testament, but the Second Coming is predicted often in the Old Testament.

Satan is not mentioned in reference to the Rapture, but after the Second Coming, Satan is bound (Revelation 20:2–3).

No prophecy must be fulfilled before the Rapture, many prophecies must be fulfilled before the Second Coming.

At the Rapture only those who meet Him in the air will see Him, at the Second Coming every eye shall see Him.

The Rapture is called the Day of Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2; Philippians 1:10; 2:16), the Second Coming comes as part of the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31–32; 1 Thessalonians 5:2).

396 posted on 08/30/2015 5:16:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: MHGinTN
  1. Like Mormonism, "The Rapture" is a teaching largely invented in the 19th Century by Restorationist Christianity unhappy with the progress of Protestantism and was not taught in historical Christianity until recently.
  2. The term is not in the Bible.
  3. Some are so drunk on the prospect of "the Rapture" that they drink it from this passage, claiming the "falling away" is the Rapture. "Falling away" in the KJV is from the Greek word ἀποστασία (apostasy). It is sad and erroneous that they look for "The Rapture" in the great apostasy before the genuine coming of our LORD Jesus Christ.
  4. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Second Thessalonians, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to three,
    as authorized, but not authored, by King James

  5. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
    Acts, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses six to twelve,
    as authorized, but not authored, by King James

  6. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
    From the Apostles' Creed
  7. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
    from the Nicene Creed


409 posted on 08/30/2015 7:16:35 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: MHGinTN; af_vet_1981
Most of those assertions are either unsupported or else the alleged difference can be easily reconciled.

Full disclosure:  I was dispensational and as pre-trib as they come years ago, but found that I could not confirm the doctrine from Scripture, and have moved to more of a "pre-wrath" position, albeit without dogmatism regarding speculations, because I know good, well-meaning people can see these things very differently.

As for the alleged differences, some of them are imposing rigid conditions, as if Christ coming in the air, and we who believe meeting Him in the air, excludes the possibility that we will then proceed with Him to the earth, albeit perhaps going to some different location. There is no passage saying "He comes thus far, and stops in mid-air, or goes back etc."  Where is that? It is not written that way anywhere.

Other alleged differences are simply unsupported. Where is the passage that says only believers will see Christ in His first coming?  When Jesus was talking to His disciples in Matthew 24, they were believers, and He was giving them directions on what to look for, what to not pay attention to, etc.  And it is there that believers are advised to avoid falling for false Christs (of which there have already been many), precisely because Jesus wanted them to know every eye will  see Him, that His return will not be secret.  He is giving this as a precaution to believers, not unbelievers, or people converted during the tribulation.  This was doctrine for the ecclesia He was building through these disciples.

Finally, whether any prophecy must be fulfilled prior to the Second Coming versus the Rapture is a problem in circular reasoning.  If one assumes from the outset that there are two such events, then it would be easy to filter all the prophecy-connected passages as being only about the Second Coming, and all the other Parousia-related passages as being about the Rapture.  But as I said, this is circular reasoning, assuming the conclusion in the question.  If there are some passages which do not directly discuss a signaling prophecy, that does not logically mean they are not talking about the same event.  In fact, the default assumption has to be that they are talking about the same event unless the author provides an intentional and unambiguous distinction.

As for the specific question of 2 Thessalonians, there is no requirement of the text that the removal of the obstacle to the appearance of the man of sin would be a removal of the Holy Spirit from from the earth as the indweller of believers.  That is an artificial construction imposed on the text without due justification.  It is speculative who or what the obstacle is.  Remember Daniel in his prayers?  When the angel arrived 21 days later, we are told the Prince of Persia was the obstacle.  We must assume that in the case of the man of sin, the obstacle is there by divine appointment, and will be removed when God's timing is just right.  But we do not have any definite basis for speculating beyond what is written.

As for apostasia as being a catching away and not a falling away, again, there is no basis for assuming anything other than the ordinary use of apostasia as a noun to describe a revolt from the faithful teaching of the Gospel.  Apostasia was a theological term of art, as they say in the law, such that when used as a noun rather than a verb was reliably about defection from some system or standard.  The verbal form could be used to discuss physical departure, but that was a distinct condition from the use of the noun, which normally referred to a rebellious state of mind.  

For example, the same word is used here, also as a noun:
And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
(Acts 21:21)
Granted, the KJV rendered it as a verb, but in the Greek, it literally says " ... that you teach rebellion [apostasian] from Moses ..." and so is very much a noun.

So it is crystal clear in 2 Thessalonians that Paul is discussing an event he had mentioned to them previously, and that it was an apostasy as both we and they would normally use that term.  Which also makes sense in the context, as the revealing of the man of sin must logically be accompanied by such a corruption of belief and culture as to permit the rise of such a fiend.

Bottom line, one can find true and false doctrine taught at all stages of the history of Christianity.  Finding a few weak references to it here and there proves nothing. Unwarranted prophetic speculation has typically led to confusion.  This issue in my mind is rather simple.  Maybe because I'm just simple minded. :)  The thing Jesus gave as the main deliverable in response to the prophecies concerning the Second Coming/Parousia/Rapture/Etc. was to be ready.  Not to figure it out in excruciating detail.  But to be found on that day abiding in Him. That's the main thing. Trust Christ. Take a pass on the false christs. Don't beat the servants while the Master is away. Keep those lamps trimmed and full of oil.  Keep looking for that day, as children of light.  It will come, and soon enough.

Peace,

SR
435 posted on 08/30/2015 10:46:43 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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