Posted on 08/23/2015 8:07:24 PM PDT by markomalley
Filmmaker, evangelist and renowned bible prophecy teacher Joel Richardson says it is a time of change for the church, especially when it comes to teachings about the End Times and the rapture. The author of the New York Times bestseller “The Islamic Antichrist” recently appeared with Joe Schimmel on Rick Wiles’s TruNews radio program to discuss the what he believes is the false doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture.
Wiles himself supports the post-tribulation position, stating, “I personally do not believe that by the year 2020, any credible person will be teaching the secret pre-trib rapture doctrine. I think the events that are coming in the next five years will utterly destroy the doctrine.”
The pre-tribulation school of thought has been an important force in American Christianity for decades, with proponents such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice. This school holds believers will be raptured before the great tribulation during the End Times, thus avoiding it. In contrast, Richardson believes the rapture will not occur until during the tribulation period. Thus, believing Christians will not be spared the persecution and calamities of the End Times.
Richardson is featured on a DVD exploring the issue entitled “Left Behind or Led Astray?” During the film, Richardson explains what he sees as the crucial importance of the issue.
“It’s one of the premiere pastoral issues of our day. If you’re a pastor that’s not preparing your people to face potentially the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation, in this hour, simply because your denomination teaches it or whatever, personally I think you’re failing in your role as a shepherd and a pastor.”
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
My point is that your position is not backed by scripture. It is an extrapolated tradition, and nothing more.
If you really believe angels are fornicating in Heaven and God would permit that then you must have a different Bible than I read.
Where did I say that?
This is a pretty good implication
And I agree. That does not mean they do not procreate. That means they don't marry...
This is a pretty good implication
And I agree. That does not mean they do not procreate. That means they don't marry...
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Essentially, he came to his own (Judah) and his own received him not.
They were blinded (as Paul explained in Romans)
All of the epistles were written to the people to whom Yeshua was sent.
Judah’s blindness is to expire at the beginning of their prescribed 70th week.
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His name is not Jesus, it is Yeshua.
Jesus is the Romanization of the Pharisee acronym “YSHU” which stands for Yimach Shimo Uezichro. (may his name be forgotten and never remembered)
Read Acts 2 for Peter’s instruction.
It still is if you speak Aramaic or Hebrew.
But I speak English and it's been Jesus in English since before my time, so I'll go with established practice.
"Jesus is the Romanization of the Pharisee acronym “YSHU” which stands for Yimach Shimo Uezichro"
That's interesting in that it's incorrect on two counts.
It's not an acronym, and it's Greek rather than Roman.
Jesus/Ιησούς is just the Greek rendering of Joshua and/or Jesus. In Hebrew both names are rendered as Yeshua.
This no different than how the Hebrew Jacob becomes James in English or Seamus in Scottish. That's the way language operates in the real world.
Not all Jewish dispersion was the result of conquest or persecution. Plenty was nothing more than the search for opportunity elsewhere.
At the time James wrote the largest ‘Jewish’ city was probably Alexandria, Egypt. The large established Jewish colony there is why we have the Greek Septuagint.
At the time James wrote (58-60 AD) Jerusalem was still the commercial hub of the eastern Mediterranean.
“At the time James wrote (58-60 AD) Jerusalem was still the commercial hub of the eastern Mediterranean.”
I doubt that. Geography alone argues otherwise. Until the advent of canals and railroads major commercial centers were always ports or right adjacent to one.
On the eastern Med Alexandria had been a major port since its founding by Alexander the Great in 330 BC. Tyre was another commercial center on the eastern Med. Caesarea Maritima another.
But Jerusalem is a hilly inland city and not a port. There is no river leading to the Med. It’s lucky to even have a spring. Jerusalem was a capital and religious center, not a center of commerce.
Precisely. A large colony of Jews fled to Egypt at the time of the Babylonian conquest. Much later, at the time of James’ writing, Nero was persecuting and scattering Jewish Christians and their converts. Persecution and dispersion is nothing new. We still see it today.
My point is that the 12 tribes dispersion mentioned by James included Israel, Judah, and the ingrafted Gentiles. All who believe.
Well that's just you engaging in libel or 'bearing false witness' as it was called in early modern English. But if that's the sort of behavior your religion lets you get away with knock yourself out.
"There is nothing in Greek. The Greeks just copied the Hebrew acronym."
Of course it was Jewish scholars and not Greeks who translated the Hebrew bible into Greek back during the 3rd century BC, but then history isn't exactly your strong point.
Hebrew was becoming a lost language with Greek and Aramaic supplanting it, and the large Jewish colony in Alexandria wanted a translation that they could easily use.
The Jewish scholars who created what we call the Septuagint knew a good deal more about the Greek and Hebrew languages than you do. And they rendered the name Yeshua into Greek as Ιησούς. Deal with it.
http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/a-history-of-pre-darby-rapture-advocates
From the above, I can see it started with a few people, then got more exposure in the colonies, then got going further with Darby.
But there are the conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and Calvinist/Reformed/Orthodox Presbyterian denominations that don’t teach dispensationalism/rapture/etc.
I’m Missouri Synod Lutheran background & attend an OPC church.
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But you’re still being told by the nicolaitan in the pulpit that you need not do as Yeshua and his Father asked.
No wonder Yeshua said that few would find his path.
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“But there are the conservative Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and Calvinist/Reformed/Orthodox Presbyterian denominations that don’t teach dispensationalism/rapture/etc.”
The same with the now defunct American Lutheran Church. Luther famously disliked the Book of Revelation so the end times focus of the dispys isn’t found in Lutheran theology. The Great Reformers had other more pressing issues to attend to.
I don’t have a dog in the rapture fights but I like following the debate.
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>> “Hebrew was becoming a lost language with Greek and Aramaic supplanting it” <<
Guess who is definitely not a student of history! (look in the mirror)
Judah completely cast off the Greek language in the Maccabee revolt.
Paul affirmed that the Oracles of God were given only to Judah.
The Greek translations of the NT epistles are powerful proof that the translator had no knowledge of the Hebrew traditions of the Apostles that originally wrote them. That is how the curse of the acronym replaced his name.
It mattered little anyway. Those that read those translations remained lost.
Since all of your witness is false, where is the libel?
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Congratulations, you have graduated from the Hillary Clinton School of Ethics.
Well there's no point in expecting you to be either truthful or above libel but it's easy enough to find citations to dispel the ignorance you spread, assuming anyone besides me is following your nonsense. For instance:
"The Septuagint, from the Latin word septuaginta (meaning seventy), is a translation of the Hebrew Bible and some related texts into Koine Greek. As the primary Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is also called the Greek Old Testament. This translation is quoted a number of times in the New Testament, particularly in Pauline epistles, and also by the Apostolic Fathers and later Greek Church Fathers. The title and its Roman numeral acronym LXX refer to the legendary seventy Jewish scholars who solely translated the Five Books of Moses as early as the 3rd century BCE.
The traditional story is that Ptolemy II sponsored the translation of the Torah (Pentateuch, Five Books of Moses). Subsequently, the Greek translation was in circulation among the Alexandrian Jews who were not fluent in Hebrew but fluent in Koine Greek, which was the lingua franca of Alexandria, Egypt and the Eastern Mediterranean at the time."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
"The existence of Hebrew is attested from the 10th century BCE[citation needed] to the late Second Temple period (lasting to c. 70 CE), after which the language developed into Mishnaic Hebrew. (From about the 6th century BCE until the Middle Ages, many Jews spoke the related Semitic Aramaic language.) From the 2nd century CE until the revival of Hebrew as a spoken language circa 1880, Hebrew was employed as a literary and official language and the language of prayer.[5] Ever since the spoken usage of Mishnaic Hebrew ended in the 2nd century CE, Hebrew had not been spoken as a mother tongue."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_of_the_Hebrew_language
"During its approximately 3000 years of written history,[2] Aramaic has served variously as a language of administration of empires and as a language of divine worship. It became the lingua franca of the Neo-Assyrian Empire (911–605 BC), Neo-Babylonian Empire (605–539 BC) and Achaemenid Empire (539–323 BC), of the Neo-Assyrian states of Assur, Adiabene, Osroene and Hatra, the Aramean state of Palmyra, and the day-to-day language of Yehud Medinata and of Judaea (539 BC – 70 AD)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language
"Aramaic is a Semitic language, related to Hebrew, Arabic, and similar languages. According to an expert linguist whom I consulted, Hebrew and Aramaic are related much as French and Spanish or Cantonese and Mandarin. During the time of the Assyrian Empire (8th century BC), Aramaic became used throughout the Ancient Near East as the language of diplomacy. In the time of the Persian Empire (6th-4th century BC), Aramaic was the predominant language of the region. Since Judea was part of the Persian Empire, Jews for whom Hebrew was a primary language began to speak Aramaic, especially those of the upper classes. By the time of Jesus, Aramaic was the most common language in Judea, though Hebrew may have been dominant in certain areas, such as Jerusalem or the Qumran community by the Dead Sea. Greek usage was also widespread in those regions during the first century A.D.
The widespread use of Aramaic among Jews is illustrated by the fact that portions of the Old Testament are in Aramaic, not Hebrew (Ezra 4:8-6:18; 7:12-26; Daniel 2:4-7:28; Jeremiah 10:11). This means, for example, that one of the most important passages in the Old Testament for our understanding of Jesus appears in Aramaic. Daniel’s vision of “one like a son of man” is described in Aramaic (kebar ‘enash; 7:13). Moreover, around the time of Jesus, though probably after his death, the Hebrew scrolls of the Old Testament were translated into Aramaic for use in the synagogues, because so many Jews did not understand Hebrew.)
During and before the time of Jesus, there wasn’t just one version of Aramaic being used in Judea and beyond. Some Aramaic was official and formal. This is preserved, as you would expect, in official documents and inscriptions. Some was informal and common. This was spoken and has mostly been lost to modern scholars. The fact that Aramaic was used by Jews in Judea is supported by its use in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls (which are mostly in Hebrew, however), and in some ancient documents and inscriptions. Even many grave inscriptions around Jerusalem are in Aramaic, not Hebrew. It’s most likely that in Galilee, where Jesus was raised and where he began his ministry, Aramaic was the most common language of the people, though many would have been able to understand Hebrew and to get along in Greek as well."
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markdroberts/series/what-language-did-jesus-speak-why-does-it-matter/
editor-surveyor wrote:
“. But you’re still being told by the nicolaitan in the pulpit that you need not do as Yeshua and his Father asked.
No wonder Yeshua said that few would find his path. “
The Law (summed up in the 10 commandments) gets read most every Sunday at my church .
We are —not— told “the law was done away with by Christ”.
We —are— told that we are to keep His commandments.
The focus is —not— on what will happen in the end times; the focus is on Christ’s work done for us, and how we are to live.
We are reminded that we are saved “by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, revealed by Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone”.
The pastor does —not— do theological gerrymandering of the books of Daniel, Revelation, Matthew, etc.
A question :
OK, is this website’s definition of nicolaitan correct?
http://yahushua.net/nicolaitan.htm
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