Posted on 08/21/2015 7:07:55 AM PDT by Salvation
There is a common Protestant claim that there is one (sole) mediator between God and Man—Jesus. Therefore, they say, asking the saints to pray for us is useless, wrong, and maybe even sinful. Those who object, usually cite some of the following texts:
To this claim, we should first answer that we do not teach a substitutional mediation in invoking the saints, as if we were trying to go to the Father apart from Jesus’ mediation.
Rather, we speak of a subordinate mediation, in which we seek the prayers of the saints, or of one another. For indeed we could have no communion with them or one another if it were not for Jesus Christ, who as the Head of the Body, the Church, unites all His members and facilitates our communion with one another.
Objectors seem to speak of there being one mediator in an absolute sense, excluding any other possible interaction or any subordinate mediation. But consider that if there is only one mediator in an absolute sense, then no one ought to ask ANYONE to pray for him; and neither should the objectors attend any church, read any book, listen to any sermon, or even read the Bible (since the Bible mediates Jesus’ words to you).
A “mediator” is someone or something that acts as a “go-between,” acting to facilitate our relationship with Jesus. And though Jesus mediates our relationship to the Father, He also asked Apostles, preachers, and teachers to mediate, to facilitate His relationship with us.
Thus Jesus sent Apostles out to draw others to him. St. Paul says, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ (Rom 10:14-15, 17).
And thus Jesus has His relationship with us mediated through His Word and through the Apostles and others who announce that Word and draw us to Him.
But since some Protestants say that there is absolutely only ONE mediator, and no subordinate or deputed mediators, there is therefore no need to ask ANYONE or ANYTHING to mediate. So should they not burn their Bibles, stop asking anyone to pray for them, and seek no advice, since NO ONE can mediate a single thing? No one can do this because there is, as they say in an absolutely unqualified sense, only ONE mediator—one and only one.
But for those of us who see that there is a subordinated mediation in service of Christ’s supreme mediation, the prayers of others, preaching, and teaching all make sense. And just as the Bible can mediate His presence and will, or as a preacher can mediate His word, so too can the prayers of others (including the Saints) convey my prayers to Him. And Jesus can mediate my prayers to the Father and give graces to me by mediating them through others.
Consider the analogy of the body, since the Church is Christ’s Body. Jesus has one Body and all the parts are connected through the Head, who is Jesus. Now consider your own body. All the members of your body have communion and unity through your head, your mind. There are different ways to have interaction with others. Perhaps someone will reach you through your ears by speaking, or through the sense of touch by tapping you on the shoulder, or visually by waving. Various members of your body facilitate (mediate) interaction with others in different ways, but it is all facilitated through the head of your body, your mind. So, too, do I confidently expect to reach Jesus in different ways: directly, or through one of His members (realizing that He Himself facilitates it).
And thus for us Catholics, our relationship with Jesus is a rich tapestry of relationships with all the members of His body, those who are with us here and now as well as those who have gone on before us but remain members of the one Body, the Church, with Christ our Head.
I have confidence in my Bible and Its interpreters. Rather than trying to look word for word at what is already translated and interpreted, wouldn't it be better to see how the Bible teaches the Way which Jesus is speaking to you about what is in the deepest recesses of your heart?
When a man finds a treasure in a field, he sells all he has to buy that field. What does he do afterward? Does he take the treasure and use it wisely, or does he use the soil to throw at his neighbors? May you find joy in your study, and peace in your heart, and guidance from God toward His Truth- our common goal to love Him and love one another forever in Heaven!
G-d ♡ bless you!
Grateful ✟ ✡
“The article’s tone is disputatious, and its posting on FR drives a wedge between Catholic and Protestant FReepers”
The article’s tone is mild, intellectual, and inviting. It is people who insist on seeing all disagreement as “provocative” who drive a wedge between Catholic and Protestant. Enough? Yes, enough of that.
The guilty flee when no man pursueth. In the same way, those who hate see hatred where none exists.
Catholicism inculcates the notion that the priesthood of their religion bring The Christ right out of Heaven to be continuously crucified in the catholic mass, so it is no wonder the adherents to such a religion would look right past the Truth which your post so succinctly proclaimed. With catholiciism, dogma trumps the Truth proclaimed in the Word. And the magicsteeringthem just makes tiny changes to wording in the Bible, if need be to support the blasphemies (like the change in Genesis used to support Mariology).
FRiend, I know what I see all up and down this thread, from all quarters, and most of it isn’t pretty. It’s downright discouraging. The fruit of this sort of thing on FR has not been good. We could be emphasizing the common ground that exists between Catholics and Protestants (and other Christian confessions), and saving our energy and ammunition for the enemy, but instead there is this striving for victory among ourselves, one group of Christians over another. You think that’s good? I don’t. Let’s try not to be part of the problem.
2 Cor 6:14
You are wasting valuable bandwidth...
Thank you, MHGinTN.
I think you need to address this to verga...He's the one trying to retranslate the scriptures...
That would be a pretty short thread...
Interesting comment from someone that can't verify the meaning of the word Scripture.
Well played, my FRiend.
“FRiend, I know what I see all up and down this thread”
Well, you see, that was the point of my post: you don’t.
You think you see something entirely other than what is actually happening. This causes you to react to perfectly civil discourse a though it were “provocative.”
The fault does not lie in that which you excoriate.
Your comment: “How about praying to Saints?
Praying to Mary?”
Yes it might help if you did so humbly. Mary as the Mother of God has the direct relationship with Jesus. The saints can inspire you on a path to Heaven as they are there.
Read and accept the Whole Truth and not just the part you like. I truly hope that you understand the Truth as God intended and not the talking points of heretics.
God’s Peace be with you.
You threw me for a loop, until I could figure out what you meant. At first I thought you were referring to Tabor Avenue, in Fairfield, California. I spent a lot of time there. 😆
You know, I really don't care much about weird discussions, like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The ONLY thing I care about, is whether I, and others of course, go to Heaven or Hell. I don't care much about anything else. I am not willing to take a horrible chance on waiting till I die, to see if I "make" it to Heaven. That will not cut the mustard for me. If I can't know, right here and now, about my eternal destiny, I won't even play the game in the first place. That's all I REALLY care about.
Yes, I know about small screens. I do most of my surfing on my IPhone 6. I kind of like all the little faces it has, that my Mac Book Pro doesn't have. 😂😇😎😀🇵🇭
LOL! Whatever you think is civil. I see plenty of replies that are downright rude. We have different definitions, it seems. FRegards!
I wonder, recommending necromancy to others, beyond just practicing it yourself, is that more wrong?
I accept the Words of Jesus and His Body and Blood.
So your religious theology is telling you that Jesus Christ id dead.
For your information, Jesus arose on the third Day.
Jesus is alive and well and with us in Holy Communion.
Sorry that you can’t accept the words of Jesus.
But I understand you say that you are a follower of Christ, but don’t believe in Him. Either believe fully in Him or walk away like the Jews did.
I hope that in your heart you accept Him and don’t turn away. God knows what is in your heart, I don’t.
Nice try but better nasties than you have tried that already and failed. As one born from above by His Grace, I can attest The Deity of Jesus is not in doubt. My Savior Lives. He is in Heaven, about to return for His True Church, the body of believers faithing in Him as their Deliverer. When you miss that event, remember your little smarmy effort to mischaracterize me this evening.
What is at issue is praying to dead people for intercession, people whose bodies are long since decayed and turned back to the dust from whence God made them. Jesus is in His Glorified body, not being drawn down from Heaven for catholic pagan priests to sacrifice Him continually on the pagan catholic altar. The soul and spirit of each dead person is existing somewhere, but not their body, not yet. That Catholics pray to these departed souls, not knowing if these are in Heaven or awaiting Hell's fires, is necromancy.
Now, again, is it more wrong to practice necromancy or to try and persuade others to also practice this devilment? I would ask you if you believe that the priest brings the very real body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus The Christ down from Heaven for the pagan Mass rites, but I'm afraid your answer would be such blasphemy I don't want to be a party to that on your behalf.
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