Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
Ask Him.
What I do know is that the title expresses a truth that is in the New Testament: Jesus is God and Mary is His mother, and she intercedes with Him on our behalf. For example: The marriage feast at Cana.
“I would be willing to bet that a Catholic priest has forgotten more about scripture than you will ever know.”
A couple months ago, I reviewed the websites of three catholic seminaries and the curriculum that prepares priests. It was shocking to me how little of Scripture was taught in all three institutions.
The seminary I attended covered every verse of every book in more than one language, thankfully. In addition, extensive church history, theology, etc. and learning doesn’t end with graduation.
I wouldn’t hesitate to take your bet. A priest can’t forget what he never learned.
Best
Nowhere in Scripture does Mary intercede with Jesus for us Arthur.
Nowhere in Scripture does God - or anyone else - call Mary the Mother of God.
Why add to His Word? It is sufficient as He inspired it.
Best
It’s really getting silly with all the ridiculous complaints and continuous postings of just garbage. The cultists just cannot admit to the Truth of Scripture and want to bet their lives on their unScriptural traditions!
Now, you are given a bet that can easily be disproven. When a Roman Catholic bows and kisses the Koran, we can be sure that one knows little about the Word of God!
Would you greet a muzzle as a brother, and kiss his book of lies?
“Pope Francis was quoted telling the Vatican’s guests that the Koran, and the spiritual teachings contained therein, are just as valid as the Holy Bible.”
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. No one here said that Mary was not the mother of Jesus - I think everyone accepts that as fact. But just what do you think this verse is supposed to prove, other than Jesus made provision for Mary to be cared for by John, as a son cares for his own mother?
Hmmmmmmm!!!
Evidently that is exactly the precision the early Church was looking for by using “Theotokos”: it affirms Mary’s role as God-bearer in her motherhood of Jesus in the flesh and in time, and avoids the misconception that she was somehow his mother from eternity, or the source of his Godhood.
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=788
Martin Luther’s thoughts on Mary, just one of the many “Catholic” things about Luther that the vast majority of protestants ignore, sort of like picking and choosing what they want to believe in the Bible, they pick and choose what they want to believe about Martin Luther.
“Along with virtually all important Protestant Founders (e.g., Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer), Luther accepted the traditional belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary (Jesus had no blood brothers), and her status as the Theotokos (Mother of God):
Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... “brothers” really means “cousins” here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39).
He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb.. .This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)
God says... “Mary’s Son is My only Son.” Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.).
God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs. . .just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).
See post 77
So Luther is on the good list again? Poor fellow doesn’t know if he’s in or out.
It would seem as though some people are professing the Nestorian heresy, correct? Seems to be alive and well today.
NESTORIANISM
A fifth-century Christian heresy that held there were two distinct persons in the Incarnate Christ, one human and the other divine, as against the orthodox teaching that Christ was a divine person who assumed a human nature. Its name was taken from Nestorius (died c. 451), a native of Germanicia in Syria, and later Bishop of Constantinople. Nestorianism was condemned by the ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431.
Postulating two separate persons in Christ, when Nestorius came to describe their union, he could not have them joined ontologically (in their being) or hypostatically (constituting one person), but only morally or psychologically. They would be united only by a perfect agreement of two wills in Christ, and by a harmonious communication of their respective activities. This harmony of wills (eudoxia) and the communion of action to which it gives rise are what forms the composite personality (henosia) of Christ.
In the Nestorian system we cannot speak of a true communication of idioms, i.e., that while the two natures of Christ are distinct the attributes of one may be predicated of the other in view of their union in the one person of Christ. Accordingly it could not be said that God was born, that he was crucified or died; Mary is not the Mother of God, except in the broad sense of giving birth to a man whose human personality was conjoined to the Word of God.
Nestorian bishops continued to propagate their views, and the confusion this produced among the people contributed to the success of Islam in the seventh century.
All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.
“Evidently that is exactly the precision the early Church was looking for by using “Theotokos”: it affirms Mary’s role as God-bearer in her motherhood of Jesus in the flesh and in time, and avoids the misconception that she was somehow his mother from eternity, or the source of his Godhood.”
+1
We have a winner.
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“Martin Luther’s thoughts...”
Martin Luther Living in Your Head Rent-Free Placemarker!
Mary is not the mother of God she was the mother of Jesus.Mary is the mother of a Person. A divine Person. The second Person of the Blessed Trinity, incarnate. Son of God, Son of Man. One Person, two natures. Mary is the mother of God and the mother of Jesus. They are the same person.
There is no biblical basis for either claim.
You need to read Luke’s account of the Visitation again.
Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit says to Mary:
“How is this that the Mother of my Lord should visit me?”
Indeed, it is in the Bible.
No.
They cherry-pick Luther the same way they claim he cherry-picks the bible.
No, and it is a totally irrelevant question as it has no impact whatsoever on a single person’s salvation, whether you agree she has that title or not.
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