Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
“According to catholics she’s the “queen of Heaven”. “
Just the incorporation of paganism into the church.
Tim Staples is a master of eisegesis. A person without Marian presuppositions is not going to find Biblical support for the uniquely Catholic positions on Mary.
“They have read their anti-Catholic screeds, and they know everything there is to know.”
All I need to read is what God actually inspired and I see the falseness in exalting Mary to more than God declared of her.
I have not yet heard you answer why you wish to make her into more than God declared by giving her these spurious titles. If God didn’t describe her in that way and didn’t call her by those titles, why do you so desire to do so?
Your joking?!?! Right?!?! No OT for the Jews?!?! Not even in Jerusalem?!?! How about Mary and Joseph, they found Jesus in scripture, they had read Isaiah. C’mon man!
“All of those truths about Mary ARE taught in Scripture, as shown in BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER by Tim Staples. “
Arthur, I take you as sincere in your beliefs.
I will also assume Tim Staples is sincere.
Sincerity isn’t reason to add to the Scriptures. None of those doctrines are taught in the Scriptures. They were added as paganism crept into the church in Rome.
You asserted, quite sincerely, apparently< "Those who did nothing more than cry Lord, Lord while refusing to conform themselves in his image, will not be saved." You do err in that you presume you can conform yourself to His Character. You do also err n not believing you can be saved NOW, right this minute, and have God's eternal life placed in you, just as the believers on Pentecost and the believers in the House of Cornelius had that eternal life put into them, immediately on believing in The Savior as Their Redeemer.
Only God in you can accomplish that, by the submission of your will. You can strive or work or follow the sacrament trail, whatever you want to call it as Catholicism teaches the perishing to do, but you will accomplish not one farthing toward your redemption by your efforts trying to be like Him.
ONLY His life in you can do that new life , for it is God Who is in you to will and to do of His good pleasure. When one is born from above, He puts His eternal life in them and then raises them up in the way that they should go.
I realize that is incomprehensible for a catholic who has been indoctrinated to strive for eternal life, but there it is for you to accept or reject.
In Context: 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Already, men were adding requirements to the Gospel preached by Paul and the rest of the Apostles. About 1800 years later, the Catholics added even more.
In scripture 2 Tim 3:14-17 for example. Where else would one go to find out about what God says?
You’re so lucky the muslims didn’t get to you first.
Not into non-Christ centered worship.
Your conviction that a text can validate itself without reference to anything external is totally their cup of tea.
The Holy Spirit is external to the Word, the Word being Christ. Sorry that you have no access to Him at this time and feel the need to seek validation elsewhere from men. Needing the Catholic church to tell you what to think, where the church has no validation at all outside of scripture tells me you are fortunate to have become Catholic, no need to study God's Word.
As for Muslims, you best be careful, Catholic Catechism says that Catholics and Muslims worship the same God. HMMMMMMMM, as one might say, after this exchange, perhaps they are right.
I modified your quote - I think I made it clearer. If I missed something, please let me know.
I agree completely with your message - especially the pattern of development (implied by your use of the word "manufacture") which has emerged regarding the aggrandizement of Mary's position in "Holy Roman Catholic Church." < /sarc>
Here is the order and progression of "Marian Dogma."
The Fifth and final Marian dogma would declare Mary to be “advocate, mediatrix, and co-redemptrix.”
- First, Mary is the Mother of God (Council of Ephesus, 431).
- Second, she is a Perpetual Virgin (Lateran Council, 649).
- Third, Mary was conceived without original sin, or her “Immaculate Conception” (Bl. Pius IX, 1854).
- Fourth, Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven, or her “Assumption” (Pius XII, 1950).
The article goes on to say,
Our Lady’s role as advocate simply confirms that this mother intercedes for our wants and needs with a maternal perseverance and power beyond that of any of the other saints. Mary brings the needs of mankind to the throne of Christ. She is the principal intercessor on behalf of her earthly children, and as queen, she has the greatest possible intercessory power to Jesus, the king of the kingdom of God, for humanity’s needs. In the Old Testament, the queen mother of the king had the greatest power of intercession to her son, the king in the line of David, on behalf of the Jewish people. In the New Testament, Mary is the new queen mother who gives birth to the “king of kings,” and is crowned as the queen and advocate in the kingdom of God to become the greatest intercessor for the people of God to Christ the King. For this role of interceding for humanity, Mary is called the “advocate,” her most ancient title, dating back to the 2nd Century.
Mary is the mediatrix for humanity who spiritually nourishes her earthly children by dispensing the graces of salvation. At the Wedding of Cana, Mary interceded to bring the graces of Jesus to all of humanity. She “mediated” or interceded to bring Jesus himself, the source of all graces, into the world. Mary too was appointed by Jesus himself at the climax of his redeeming sacrifice on the cross to become the spiritual mother of all peoples and to dispense to humanity heavenly graces when he said to Mary, “Behold, your son.” Jesus then told John, and all those who seek to become beloved disciples of Jesus, to “behold your Mother.” For these roles in dispensing the saving graces of Jesus to her earthly children, Mary is called the “mediatrix of all graces.” As Bl. John Paul II explained, “mediatrix is implicit in the term, mother.” The papal Magisterium of the last two centuries has consistently taught this Marian role as mediatrix of all graces, and Pope Benedict XVI Emeritus published this same title on 11 February 2013, the day he announced his resignation.
The Catholic Church is one of Satan's tools. He is a liar and a deceiver. His desire is to keep people from the Truth.
We have been working to shed Light on these lies and show people the Way to the Truth.
From the beginning, Satan has perverted God's Word. It is the very same strategy that he is using today. Right on this thread, in fact.
Satan's followers are taking God's Word and distorting it to say things that is does not (e.g. Mary is sinless, she is an intercessor, her perpetual virginity, her assumption, and lots more).
We serve a God who performs miracles. Our lives in Christ are miracles, in deed! It is not too late for these to embrace the whole Truth. That should be our earnest prayer.
An example would something like adding titles/attributes to Mary OR forcing priests to be celibate as a requirement of servitude. There are plenty more that come to mind.
I think the three(?) wise men found Jesus in a manger by searching the Scriptures, did they not?
I know it implied that in the NT, but apparently it must be a misconception. There is no clue of the Christ in the OT. The only way to find Jesus is in the NT or without using scripture at all!?
>>Here is the order and progression of “Marian Dogma.”
First, Mary is the Mother of God (Council of Ephesus, 431).
Second, she is a Perpetual Virgin (Lateran Council, 649).
Third, Mary was conceived without original sin, or her “Immaculate Conception” (Bl. Pius IX, 1854).
Fourth, Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven, or her “Assumption” (Pius XII, 1950).
....................................
Note the dates.
Never taught or believed before 100AD when it could have been Apostle’s Teaching.
Only believed after syncretic paganism was incorporated into the Imperial Roman version of Christianity.
Andrew and Peter knew about the Messiah from the OT!
If we follow simple logic, it goes like this:
We are to emulate Christ (true).
Christ loved and honored His mother (true).
Therefore, we should honor and love OUR mothers.
Now that is a logical progression. You make a leap of logic that is not supported by the statements. You deduce that because Christ honored His mother, we should also honor His mother, but the logical conclusion is that we should likewise honor OUR mothers if we emulate Christ.
Well then the OT must not count as scripture for this discussion. Or maybe it is about a different God, still trying to figure out where you go to read about God, and then not being able to use that resource as an argument for God or what He says. It’s a conundrum!!
She was favored by God to give birth to Christ.
She is the mother of Jesus.
She is counted as blessed.
note: "house" and "child"
Contrary to tradition, the Magi did not visit Jesus at the manger on the night of his birth as did the shepherds. They came some months later and visited him as a "child" in his "house."
A lot can be learned about Who we should worship and kneel to in this one verse.
Notice the order. They saw the Child first.
Notice Who they fell down and worshipped before. The Child.
Notice Who received the gifts. The Child.
The coming of Christ was first foretold in the Garden when Adam and Eve first sinned. The coming Messiah is prophesied all throughout the OT.
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