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Mary, Mother of God, The Greatest of all Her Titles
http://www.catholicchristiananswers.com ^ | August 12, 2015 | Jessie Neace

Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.

Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.

Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?

Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?

Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.

We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.

However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.

First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”

So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.

Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.

Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?

If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).

So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.

One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: apologetics; provocativeclaims
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To: rwa265
Do you agree that the son of Mary is God?

Why do I get this feeling, that you want me to say yes, then you will say, that means she is the mother of God. No, I do not accept that. Look bro, you can believe whatever you like about a host of different issues, but the only issue I care about, is what is the plan of salvation? Beyond that, I don't care too deeply about issues, that are important, but pale in comparison to the plan of salvation. Do you agree that the plan of salvation is infinitely more important than anything else?

1,221 posted on 08/26/2015 10:06:08 AM PDT by Mark17 (How could anyone suspend himself upon a cross and die for me, die willingly, to set us free.)
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To: rwa265
This doesn’t seem to be very Christlike of you.

In what way?


 


 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 


1,222 posted on 08/26/2015 10:09:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

bump


1,223 posted on 08/26/2015 12:36:57 PM PDT by GeronL (Cruz is for real, 100%)
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To: Elsie

I believe that Jesus would not want us to LOVE seeing anyone dragged through the mud.


1,224 posted on 08/26/2015 1:47:55 PM PDT by rwa265 (This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12)
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To: daniel1212

Excellent summary. Good reach back to the OT on Judges. Really disproves the catholic claim on the IC.


1,225 posted on 08/26/2015 2:35:13 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Arthur McGowan

Well Arthur I’m sorry I burst the bubble. But the first step is to define the particulars. You left out the biggest one of all. The Son of God is not a created being. He is the Creator. So my point still stands.

Unless you see John had it incorrectly, which I don’t believe you do.


1,226 posted on 08/26/2015 2:47:33 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Anyone who says that any one of these syllogisms is invalid because one of the terms is “God,” does not have any idea what the science of Logic is about.

Well when you omit VERY important data as in Mary, Sam, and Dorothy were all created beings and created by The Word of God, that makes your approach...incomplete.

I will point out that the Apostles when penning the Gospels and Acts do not engage in your gymnastics. They say "Mary the mother of Jesus."

But you are free to infer all you want. But that can become a dangerous exercise when dealing with the revealed written Word of God:

Compare the following:

God:

“Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Someone else:

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

1,227 posted on 08/26/2015 2:57:48 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: daniel1212
Which is not what is meant by denying Mary is the mother of God, as instead it means Mary is not ontologically the mother of God, but is one thru whom God provided the body He took on, but contributed nothing to His Divinity.

Key point above. Thanks.

1,228 posted on 08/26/2015 3:17:15 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: Elsie

Dumb argument.

Jesus Christ was also a human. After all, he died for our sins.
Jesus Christ was not a sinner.

Why would the Son of God be born of a sinner? Do you believe in original sin? And how it is passed on?


1,229 posted on 08/26/2015 6:13:56 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide; Elsie
Why would the Son of God be born of a sinner? Do you believe in original sin? And how it is passed on?

There are no other kind of humans who have a human father as their father.

Show us *original sin* from Scripture. I don't recall seeing the phrase anywhere last time I read it.

Do YOU know how sin is passed on? Here's a clue. It's not through osmosis.

1,230 posted on 08/26/2015 6:20:50 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: redleghunter

The fact that Mary, Dorothy, and Sam are created beings, and God isn’t, is entirely irrelevant.


1,231 posted on 08/26/2015 6:24:10 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (Beau Biden's funeral, attended by Bp. Malooly, Card. McCarrick, and Papal Nuncio, Abp. Vigano.)
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To: Elsie
Where does God, the Father, refer to Jesus Christ as “God”. Chapter and verse, please.

Good point!

Thanks!. Please, get back to be when one you all find that chapter and verse; until then, your criticism of the Blessed Mother does not stand.

If the prots can't provide biblical evidence that God the Father declared Jesus Christ to be God, i.e., "I am the Father of God": they have no claim to declare that Mary is not the Mother of God.

1,232 posted on 08/26/2015 6:31:11 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: af_vet_1981

**Consider it a lesson as to whether a more Orthodox Protestant can correct the heresy of a devolved form of Protestantism if Catholicism is not involved.**

You assume your position is right, without countering with scripture. The common accusation toward Prots in general, is that they started with Luther. No, Luther was just the religious Donald Trump of his day. He saw the need to correct wrongs, and got the publicity. He benefited greatly thanks to the printing press being invented 70 years before his ‘rebellion’.

The printing press helped get out the Word, thus exposing the many unscriptural ideas held by the RCC. Up until then, it was easier for the RCC to try to silence the small pockets of true believers.

Do you believe John 12:44-50 and 14:6-11? Do you believe Peter’s marvelous testimony to Cornelius, concerning Jesus Christ?

“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good...healing...for God was with him...Him God raised up...it is he that was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.” Acts 10:38-43

God is IN the Son, without measure, as the Holy Ghost. The Father is the source of all things divine. Can you prove otherwise?


1,233 posted on 08/26/2015 6:41:13 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: rwa265
It took the Prodigal son being drug through worse than mud before his attention was gotten.

Tough Love works in many venues.

1,234 posted on 08/26/2015 6:55:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ebb tide
Why would the Son of God be born of a sinner?

Yes; a whole line of them in fact.

One was a whore.

1,235 posted on 08/26/2015 6:56:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ebb tide
Thanks!. Please, get back to be when one you all find that chapter and verse; until then, your criticism of the Blessed Mother does not stand.

This is logic?

1,236 posted on 08/26/2015 6:58:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
WHY should I believe you? Do you have anything to offer but your opinion?

Yes, I, unlike some, remained Catholic all my life, attended Catholic school, paid attention during catechism class, demanded answers from clergy when I had questions, read fairly extensively on Catholic teachings, accepted the historical church and learned how she grew and matured through the centuries, and did not buy the pathetic excuses for those who decided to cause a revolution in Christianity to further their erroneous re-interpretations of God's word.

1,237 posted on 08/26/2015 7:04:33 PM PDT by terycarl (COMMON SENSE PREVAILS OVER ALL)
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To: ebb tide

How about you show us where in Scripture the terms *mother of God* and *Blessed Mother* show up?

Then you’ll have some basis for legitimacy.


1,238 posted on 08/26/2015 7:24:00 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Bwahahahaha, that is the most spectacular piece of denial I’ve seen at FR in years! LOL


1,239 posted on 08/26/2015 7:24:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: ebb tide
If the prots can't provide biblical evidence that God the Father declared Jesus Christ to be God, i.e., "I am the Father of God": they have no claim to declare that Mary is not the Mother of God.

Desperation if ever I saw it.

How about showing us where the Holy spirit calls Mary *mother of God*?

If you can't then you have no claim to declare that she is.

1,240 posted on 08/26/2015 7:25:51 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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