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Purgatory
Catholic.com ^ | not given | Catholic Answerss

Posted on 08/12/2015 7:14:16 AM PDT by Salvation

Purgatory


The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Two Judgments

When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment. Scripture says that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27). We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill. We know at once what our final destiny will be. At the end of time, when Jesus returns, there will come the general judgment to which the Bible refers, for example, in Matthew 25:31-32: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed (Luke 12:2–5).

Augustine said, in The City of God, that "temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment" (21:13). It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin: "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59).

Money, Money, Money

One argument anti-Catholics often use to attack purgatory is the idea that the Catholic Church makes money from promulgating the doctrine. Without purgatory, the claim asserts, the Church would go broke. Any number of anti-Catholic books claim the Church owes the majority of its wealth to this doctrine. But the numbers just don’t add up.

When a Catholic requests a memorial Mass for the dead—that is, a Mass said for the benefit of someone in purgatory—it is customary to give the parish priest a stipend, on the principles that the laborer is worth his hire (Luke 10:7) and that those who preside at the altar share the altar’s offerings (1 Cor. 9:13–14). In the United States, a stipend is commonly around five dollars; but the indigent do not have to pay anything. A few people, of course, freely offer more. This money goes to the parish priest, and priests are only allowed to receive one such stipend per day. No one gets rich on five dollars a day, and certainly not the Church, which does not receive the money anyway.

But look at what happens on a Sunday. There are often hundreds of people at Mass. In a crowded parish, there may be thousands. Many families and individuals deposit five dollars or more into the collection basket; others deposit less. A few give much more. A parish might have four or five or six Masses on a Sunday. The total from the Sunday collections far surpasses the paltry amount received from the memorial Masses.

A Catholic "Invention"?

Fundamentalists may be fond of saying the Catholic Church "invented" the doctrine of purgatory to make money, but they have difficulty saying just when. Most professional anti-Catholics—the ones who make their living attacking "Romanism"—seem to place the blame on Pope Gregory the Great, who reigned from A.D. 590–604.

But that hardly accounts for the request of Monica, mother of Augustine, who asked her son, in the fourth century, to remember her soul in his Masses. This would make no sense if she thought her soul would not benefit from prayers, as would be the case if she were in hell or in the full glory of heaven.

Nor does ascribing the doctrine to Gregory explain the graffiti in the catacombs, where Christians during the persecutions of the first three centuries recorded prayers for the dead. Indeed, some of the earliest Christian writings outside the New Testament, like the Acts of Paul and Thecla and the Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity (both written during the second century), refer to the Christian practice of praying for the dead. Such prayers would have been offered only if Christians believed in purgatory, even if they did not use that name for it. (See Catholic Answers’ Fathers Know Best tract The Existence of Purgatory for quotations from these and other early Christian sources.)

Why No Protests?

Whenever a date is set for the "invention" of purgatory, you can point to historical evidence to show the doctrine was in existence before that date. Besides, if at some point the doctrine was pulled out of a clerical hat, why does ecclesiastical history record no protest against it?

A study of the history of doctrines indicates that Christians in the first centuries were up in arms (sometimes quite literally) if anyone suggested the least change in beliefs. They were extremely conservative people who tested a doctrine’s truth by asking, Was this believed by our ancestors? Was it handed on from the apostles? Surely belief in purgatory would be considered a great change, if it had not been believed from the first—so where are the records of protests?

They don’t exist. There is no hint at all, in the oldest writings available to us (or in later ones, for that matter), that "true believers" in the immediate post-apostolic years spoke of purgatory as a novel doctrine. They must have understood that the oral teaching of the apostles, what Catholics call tradition, and the Bible not only failed to contradict the doctrine, but, in fact, confirmed it.

It is no wonder, then, that those who deny the existence of purgatory tend to touch upon only briefly the history of the belief. They prefer to claim that the Bible speaks only of heaven and hell. Wrong. It speaks plainly of a third condition, commonly called the limbo of the Fathers, where the just who had died before the redemption were waiting for heaven to be opened to them. After his death and before his resurrection, Christ visited those experiencing the limbo of the Fathers and preached to them the good news that heaven would now be opened to them (1 Pet. 3:19). These people thus were not in heaven, but neither were they experiencing the torments of hell.

Some have speculated that the limbo of the Fathers is the same as purgatory. This may or may not be the case. However, even if the limbo of the Fathers is not purgatory, its existence shows that a temporary, intermediate state is not contrary to Scripture. Look at it this way. If the limbo of the Fathers was purgatory, then this one verse directly teaches the existence of purgatory. If the limbo of the Fathers was a different temporary state, then the Bible at least says such a state can exist. It proves there can be more than just heaven and hell.

"Purgatory Not in Scripture"

Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something, "The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture." This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching. The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either, yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it. Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

Why Go To Purgatory?

Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean." Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.

Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist, put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost. The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . . It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man."

It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.

No Contradiction

The Fundamentalist resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory presumes there is a contradiction between Christ’s redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified. There isn’t. And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict. The Fundamentalist has it backward: Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross. Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because "[f]or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Heb. 12:11).

Nothing Unclean

Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean, but actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life. After all, if a guilty soul is merely "covered," if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul. It is still unclean.

Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven." From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered," remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven. It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections. The cleansing occurs in purgatory. Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit." Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement, as Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; purgatory
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To: Boogieman

Who told you that?


21 posted on 08/12/2015 8:47:15 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: MARKUSPRIME

Did you read the article?

The author addresses your point.


22 posted on 08/12/2015 8:48:48 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

” “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (”fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.”

On the contrary. The passage itself is clear enough:

“I, like an architect who knows his job, by the grace God has given me, lay the foundation; someone else builds upon it. I only say this, let the builder be careful how he builds! The foundation is laid already, and no one can lay another, for it is Jesus Christ himself. But any man who builds on the foundation using as his material gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or stubble, must know that each man’s work will one day be shown for what it is. The day will show it plainly enough, for the day will arise in a blaze of fire, and that fire will prove the nature of each man’s work. If the work that the man has built upon the foundation will stand this test, he will be rewarded. But if a man’s work be destroyed under the test, he loses it all. He personally will be safe, though rather like a man rescued from a fire.”

It talks about the reward for working well under the Lord, and the lack of reward for those who build badly. Not punishment for someone “still imperfectly purified”:

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...” - Ephesians 2

Please notice the tenses - not “will seat us” but “seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”.

“For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”

Again, notice the timing. In God’s eyes, there is nothing left to forgive.

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” - John 3

“Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” - John 6

It is finished. There is a reason Purgatory is not mentioned.


23 posted on 08/12/2015 8:56:14 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Can you remember what America was like in 2004?)
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To: Salvation

A “vision of Mary” promised it:

“The Blessed Virgin of Mount Carmel has promised to save those who wear the scapular from the fires of hell; She will also shorten their stay in purgatory if they should pass from this world still owing some debt of punishment.

This promise is found in a Bull of Pope John XXII. The Blessed Virgin appeared to him and, speaking of those who wear the Brown Scapular, said, “I, the Mother of Grace, shall descend on the Saturday after their death and whomsoever I shall find in purgatory I shall free so that I may lead them to the holy mountain of life everlasting.””

http://www.sistersofcarmel.com/brown-scapular-information.php


24 posted on 08/12/2015 9:22:27 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: FourtySeven; defconw; Salvation
Thank you for reposting the link to the Testimony of Gloria Polo.

Some powerful stuff there. I suspect it will impact me for the rest of my life. Everyone should read it, all of it. Everyone.

It also corroborates what many saints have written. In recent times, St. Faustina was shown a vision of heaven, hell and purgatory.

...I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end without realizing it. And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell. And their number was so great that it was impossible to count them. And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings" (Diary 153).
READ MORE

25 posted on 08/12/2015 9:52:53 AM PDT by NYer (Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy them. Mt 6:19)
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To: Salvation
This sentence alone is worth the price of admission. (Little joke there. ...)

My world famous and soon to be a major motion picture talk on Purgatory compares it to physical therapy. It's true and regrettable, IMHO, that a lot of the language is either penal or monetary. But anyone who has ever dieted or exercised -- leave alone damaged a ligament -- almost naturally makes the leap from a "therapeutic" to an "accounting" metaphor. Last week's vacation must be "paid for" with this week's time on the elliptical or treadmill. This cupcake will cost me down the road.

If, because of a wound, I have wounded myself further by favoring the injured member and asking too much of others to compensate, there will be labor and pain to restore strength and freedom of motion. But the whole process is "happy" because it is "toward" strength and freedom, and THOUGH one works, one experiences the healing as grace.

26 posted on 08/12/2015 10:16:04 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Oops! Left out the sentence I liked!

It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.

27 posted on 08/12/2015 10:22:10 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mad Dawg
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.

Yes, very good! That is true! Christ treats us as individuals, not like branded herds of cattle.
28 posted on 08/12/2015 10:28:39 AM PDT by mlizzy (America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe/Wade has deformed a great nation. -MT)
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To: Boogieman; Salvation
As to getting out of or through Purgation "free," in a way that's trivial. The whole thing is free. "All the way to heaven is heaven," and heaven is free and unearned.

I wear a white scapular, not with any particular benefit in mind but because I'm a Lay Dominican and that's what we wear ... or a scapular medal ('cause a bit of cloth nestled in my breast in the summer in Virginia is ... well, no.) . I don't sit around wringing my hands because I can't wear the Carmelite scapular.

The article points out that praying for the dead seems to go way back. I generally pin my intercessory prayers on the proposition that the prayer of the righteous availeth much and that in Christ I am made righteous.

But HOW prayers assist in Purgation is beyond me. And even bulls and visionsnto the contrary notwithstanding (and visions, locutions, apparitions, and the like are NEVER de fide ,) it is not clear that Purgation is in a place or for a duration.

So it seems to me that the "bottom line" of wearing the brown scapular is that it is an appeal to Mary for the assistance of her prayers and an assertion that Mary's prayer avail much.

29 posted on 08/12/2015 10:43:31 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Salvation

The author isn’t Christ or one of the writers of the (Old& New Test)Bible. If its not in the Bible its not doctrine, period. You all can make up whatever you want to and believe it, I’ll stick with the holy word. Done arguing have a good day.


30 posted on 08/12/2015 11:09:41 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: fungoking; Salvation

In our archdiocese there is one priest and one priest only who lives off of his stipends and he was basically endowed by a rich family. He’s a wonderful man. The rest of the priests and the bishops are on salary. So the money that is paid when someone wants a Mass said for his/her loved one or when there is a wedding, baptism etc. goes into the general fund. The worker is worth his hire. The priests do not make much and they work very long hours. Of course, as Mr. Mercat says, they have a great retirement plan. We Catholics and I’m assuming Christians in other denominations are called to donate time and treasure as the Holy Spirit calls us. Where your treasure is there also is your heart. The more I give, especially of my time, the more I want to give.

On the subject of Purgatory - I recommend reading The Divine Comedy. Skip The Inferno and go directly to Purgatorio. Also consider this bible quote, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” I’m willing to guess that all the people I know who have passed away were not perfect. So how does he/she meet this commandment?


31 posted on 08/12/2015 11:57:13 AM PDT by Mercat (The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him and delivers them.)
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To: MARKUSPRIME

It’s not in the Bible, directly, that there is NO purgation. Somebody interprets. That interpreter is not a Scriptural writer. So his interpretation is invalid, right?


32 posted on 08/12/2015 12:31:56 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mercat

Yes to the Purgatorio!

I think our brethren say that we are made perfect in an instant by grace. And since we differ from them on things like time and space, to them that means there can be nothing for which an intervalmor a place would be appropriate language.


33 posted on 08/12/2015 12:34:51 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mr Rogers
“Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” - John 6

This interests me HUGELY.

Clearly, Faith is a gift. At least in my life, it has always been there, in and around me, but not OF me or my doing.

On the other hand, if the Psalmist implores God to “remember” his acts of old, it can’t be all that off base for me to remind myself to remember those same acts and on whom my salvation rests.

Here’s a smart-alecky way to say it: The only thing I have to do is to remind myself that I don’t have to do anything. For me, I could almost summarize the entire Catholic and Dominican askesis as learning how to have the faith (and hope and charity) I already have. To pray, to study, to try to avoid killing the other members of chapter (that’s a joke, son) (at least I think it is), to proclaim, as my state of life permits, the Love ... these are about learning to hold still, to let the gift soak me.

And that’s why Ezekiel’s vision and the Vidi Aquam (below) are so important to me.


Vidi aquam egredientem de templo,
a latere dextro, alleluia:
et omnes, ad quos pervenit aqua ista,
salvi facti sunt, et dicent, alleluia, alleluia.

V. Confitemini Domino quoniam bonus:
R. Quoniam in saeculum misericordia eius.

V. Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto:
R. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,
et in saecula sæculorum. Amen.
...
I saw water coming forth from the temple
on the right side, alleluia:
and all those to whom this water came
were saved, and shall say, alleluia, alleluia.

V. Give praise to the Lord, for He is good:
R. For His mercy endureth forever.

V. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost:
R. As it was in the beginning, is now,
and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.


As almost a trivial aside, since Purgation is not about forgiveness, our being already forgiven is not really relevant to the question. Nor is judgment.

It's the fault of too many highly inadequate preachers and teachers that Purgation is made into a bug-a-boo and something scary and punitive. That's one reason I push the therapeutic metaphor. Having the lovely therapist try to yank my arm out of its socket was not a "punishment" for the torn ligament. It was a cure, a mercy, a gift. And since I had used the arm poorly, to come to be able to use it as it was made to be used involved some work, some pleasant things, and some painful things. But I, and everyone with me at the therapy shoppe, was cheerful and happy. We were getting better!

On what ought we to work "under the Lord"?

34 posted on 08/12/2015 1:13:02 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mad Dawg

I love Padre Pio who said that God is not bound by time and space and so it made perfect sense to him to pray for someone who lays dying, even if he died years ago. I pray daily for the brother of my daughter in law who died at the age of 18 in a motorcycle accident. I never knew him but by all accounts he was a wild child and I doubt whether he was in a state of grace. I will not accept that Jesus, my merciful savior, let Chris go to hell.


35 posted on 08/12/2015 1:22:06 PM PDT by Mercat (The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him and delivers them.)
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To: Salvation

Seriously...a third article on this topic in the past two weeks??


36 posted on 08/12/2015 1:41:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: MARKUSPRIME
Purgatory is not in the bible in the KJV or the original old testament in Hebrew or the Greek new testament.

Sure it is.

So its made up Cathloic BS, and not true doctrine. Feel sorry for people led astray that believe this.

Jeremiah 5:21 Hear, O foolish people, and without understanding: who have eyes, and see not: and ears, and hear not.

37 posted on 08/12/2015 1:46:08 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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To: Mercat; Mad Dawg; fungoking; Salvation
On the subject of Purgatory - I recommend reading The Divine Comedy. Skip The Inferno and go directly to Purgatorio. <

In the Seminary I took an elective course on the Divine Comedy. The instructor was an 80 something Catholic Priest. He was a native speaking Italian and did a great job of sight translating it from the original Florentine.

38 posted on 08/12/2015 1:51:12 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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To: Mercat

Yay, Padre Pio!

Time and space are subject to God, not He to them. So we cannot speak with certainty about before, after, then, or now when we speak about Him to whom all places are here and all times now.

As to Chris or any we love, we know that God desires all to bexsaved and that he takes no pleasure in the death of those who do not turn and live.

He knows what He’s doing.


39 posted on 08/12/2015 1:53:05 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: ealgeone
Seriously...a third article on this topic in the past two weeks??

Seriously, if it bothers you don't read them, but I believe that you (all) will learn something rather than just regurgitating the lies of someone that doesn't have a clue as to why Catholics believe what we do and why.

40 posted on 08/12/2015 1:53:20 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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