Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
I think that's one of those questions you must answer for yourself.No one can "channel" Jesus, although it pretty popular with some.
OK
But no worries. It's open book. You have all the time you have to answer it.
Didn't take long.For me on my seeker's path, this is a "When you come to a fork in the road, take it" kinda thing.
Your choice as to what and who you follow.As for you? Take it or don't. You make the call.
That's the rule I follow.
Take Fatima and "Christ Child"
God doesn't work like that these days, the author should find another way to get his message across instead of making it seem that Jesus is talking through him. Not Biblical.
satan is quite clever and knows the Bible quite well.
He knows how to use some truth to get across his big lies.
In a case such as this, the person doing the channeling of an apparition gets a lot of attention, glory, hits.
In the past you have said the Jesus was Catholic. In fact I think you said he was the first Catholic.
“The Koran
“In the Koran, the holy name of the Blessed Virgin Mary is mentioned no less than thirty times. No other woman’s name is even mentioned, not even that of Mohammed’s daughter, Fatima. Among men, only Abraham, Moses, and Noah are mentioned more times than Our Lady. In the Koran, Our Blessed Mother is described as “Virgin, ever Virgin.” The Islamic belief in the virginity of Mary puts to shame the heretical beliefs of those who call themselves Christian, while denying the perpetual virginity of Mary. Make no mistake about it, there is a very special relationship between the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Moslems!
...
“Our Lady appeared to a humble Aztec Indian convert by the name of Juan Diego in 1531. When asked her name by Juan Diego, at the request of the local bishop, Our Lady’s response, in the Aztec language, included the words “te coatlaxopeuh” (pronounced: “te quatlasupe”) and meant “one who crushes the head of the stone serpent.”
...
“It is interesting that the “crescent” is also the symbol for Islam and that America’s Shrine to Our Lady has an Islamic name.”
http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm
'splained by who???Catholicism started when Christ founded it. The fact that is wasn't called Catholic until near the end of the FIRST century is irrelevant. You were Syncro 9 months before you were born and named....so was the church. You, and she, existed from the time of their CONCEPTION.
Mary and Joseph were married YEARS before Jesus formed the Catholic church....they weren't Catholic when they were married, they were Jewish. Christ, as founder of Catholicism, was, of course its first member.
Joseph will be judged as will all faithful Jews who died before there was Christianity. Mary, of course, was assumed into Heaven after her death...body and soul and will be with her Son for eternity.
Jesus didn’t form the catholic church; Constantine did.
Jesus spoke of building (increasing) his already existing Assembly that had existed since Adam’s time.
What Constantine formed has been at war with what Jesus built for over 1600 years.
.
Check every post you have replied to with 3 or more questions marks.
That's you evading the Truth of the Gospel message.
Also check all the posts you did not reply to.
Your ignoring of the pure messages from Jesus Christ...The Word of God...The Sword of the Spirit...speaks volumes about your understanding of Christian spirituality.
You may learn something, in fact you even may become a Christian.
Yes, this post crosses the line of "personal" but the one I'm responding to had mindreading and erroneous personal comments about me that were posted as if they were facts.
Blaspheme. Hopefully not a "mortal" sin or a sin unto death.
Squishing the Son of God, the Word of God into the small coffining box of "Catholicism" is absurd and will have eternal consequences for anyone who continues to try to do that.
God...Jesus... a Catholic? Oh my did you step it it again!!!!! (<______Exclaimation points are like question marks...they prove I am right, right?)
There was a church formed in the first century made up of every born again saved Christian and it was and is known as the Body of Christ.
The only thing "Catholic" about it was as scripture says a catholic...universal...church.
terycarl, the preeminent spokesman for Catholicism here at FR, will send you a bunch of question marks for saying that.
What Constantine formed has been at war with what Jesus built for over 1600 years.
Amen! It's nice to be able to agree with you for a change.
The Bible does not agree. The Bible is the Word of God.
Many bow down to the Catholic's aberration of Mary.
I love the Mary of the Bible, as do all born again Christians.
Based upon what you posted, a couple of questions.
You said: "God doesn't work like that these days".
You seem to be saying that He did "work like that" at one time, though, so...
1) Why did He stop?
2) What is He doing now instead?
Can I share a theory, though you didn’t ask me about God’s not working “that way” anymore?
I don’t believe God ever worked through the miraculous PRIMARILY. In the establishing of the New Testament He empowered the apostles in a way that is CLEARLY not happening in the same way now (except in some people’s heads). The letter to the Hebrews speaks of it in the past tense, also.
The Psalms speak of things He did “of old” and were expected to be spoken about to successive generations and BELIEVED in by faith. I believe he parted the Red Sea by faith. I can visualize it to some degree but I KNOW He did it. Faith! God does not endlessly part seas and give healing power such as that one who basks in the apostle’s shadow is HEALED! As in healed, for real, ON THE SPOT. For free. By Grace. Not laboriously or through wrangling or subterfuge. Such a healed person does not need a Kenneth Hagin tract on HOW TO KEEP YOUR HEALING (imagine the absurdity of someone following behind Jesus or the apostles...).
It is His to choose when and where He shows himself in visible, miraculous power. I’ve never met a believer who denied Him this. But I’ve met some who build a mountain out of a molehill and every thing in their life is above and beyond! They have issues, okay? Simple faith is not their forte.
An epigram for our times of Obama:
“The Tyrant’s device: Whatever is possible is NECESSARY”
This is not God’s way. What He allows he COULD prevent, but does not. He sets limits and operates according to His wisdom when He could do ANYTHING. We should all marvel at His manifold wisdom in what He WITHOLDS as much as any thing He miraculously does.
I love His patient unfolding of the revelation of His Son Jesus, in “the fullness of time”.
Based upon what you posted, a couple of questions.1) Because of sin and the hardness of men's hearts.You said: “God doesn't work like that these days”.
You seem to be saying that He did “work like that” at one time, though, so...
1) Why did He stop?
2) What is He doing now instead?
And so people would not have their ears "tickled" by apparitions [a ghost or ghostlike image of a person] claiming to be "Christ Child" and "Mary" plus other various entities such as those called up in a seance.
2) He sent Jesus, our (High) Priest, as the mediator between God and man.
When Jesus came and fulfilled the law, he became our advocate and brother and it is Him we can go to whenever we wish or feel we need to.
We confess our sins directly to Him and he forgives them.
Plus we can talk to him as if we are talking to our Father, God.
Jesus said He and the Father are one. See the New Testament for verification.
“See the New Testament for verification.”
Excellent source from what I’ve heard...
Amen to that and also post 814!
But while I can see where you're coming from, these days I'm childishly literal about the Biblically miraculous. Might be some debris leftover from my time on the multiple concussion syndrome tour, maybe? Not sure.
One thing that does come to mind, what little is left of it anyway, about "keeping your healing"?
Though I don't know where to find it in the Bible, it's that thing about how, when you kick the evil one out and your messy house has been newly cleaned, it's a dangerous time of high vulnerability.
Apparently, Satan doesn't like to give up something he has claimed for himself, I guess, so he sends 'em back in with reinforcements to retake territory in a now unsuspecting, un-walled city, so to speak.
As a perpetually prodigal son who does that "two steps forward/one step back" thing like a line dancer outta step with the times, wherever that passage is in the Bible, it sure supports what I've seen and experienced in life so far.
Then again, I think God has a purpose for Satan just like He does with everything else.
I figure He uses him to test us sometimes in order to check our progress, as well as for resistance to build our spiritual muscles, just like we do in a gym lifting weights and exercising to build our physical muscles and stay in shape.
Every bad thing He touches becomes good, they tell me, and even Satan becomes a good when viewed and used that way.
Plus, the world has become more modern. I think it's like a buddy of mine said about moving to the city and raising kids.
On the farm, it was easy to keep 'em busy doing chores, learning about life and staying out of trouble via life on the farm.
Much harder raising kids and keeping them busy and out of trouble in the city, he tells me.
I heard that. You know what they say about idle hands and the devil, right?
Well, there you go. Sometimes it's not pretty, but God works with what He has and what we give Him to teach us and test our progress, just like any good parent/teacher does and He is the Ultimate Parent/Teacher of them all!
That's the view from here, such as it is.
Thanks for your thought provoking reply! I hope I gave back as good as I got! :)
I think you'll have trouble with this, but it's from that same book. See what you think:
Jesus, someone mentioned some time ago to me that you willSee what I mean? Your thoughts and that are about 180 out of phase.
give no more signs, You said it to the Pharisees; he said this when I
said that this guidance (message) is from You.Vassula, when I said this to the Pharisees I meant My miracles of
the time I was in flesh and among them; condemning Me now, for it is
to condemn My Heavenly Works, shows how arid and closed their
hearts have become; My signs will never end; My Presence will be felt
in the world and I will continue to show Myself in signs;believe, believe O men of little faith, do not distort My Word, for
what have you to say about Fatima; are you dreading to believe that I
am the One who gave you this sign? O men of little faith, what would
you not declare rather than accept that Heaven’s signs are from Me!
love my My Works, accept My Works; believe, believe in Me, I, who am
Infinite Wealth and Mercy; My signs are so that all men see that Love
has not forgotten you; Love has not withdrawn and glories in His
Glory; Love is among you, never leaving you;~Jesus, May 28, 1987 True Life in God
Fascinating!
I have no trouble with it.
Do you believe it is Jesus speaking on May 28, 1987?
I don't know Him like an expert nor as someone educated and trained in His ways, nor as someone who has studied under Him.
Your opinions are boldly spoken and come across as from someone who knows. That's not me.
Just making sure we're on the same page.
Now, to answer your question...I wasn't sure at first, still not 100% sure 100% of the time.
Fwiw, I grew up in an atheist's home next door to Missouri and that makes "next door" close enough for me to need a lot of convincing. I want to believe like Mulder, but the needs convincing part of me is closer to Scully.
But it sure sounds like Him, to me, and still does re-reading that message a few more times.
When I first started reading the messages, I was and still am just getting to know Him, so take this for what it's worth.
What I've read so far sure Feels right, you know? Especially in the heart part of me Jesus speaks to/through. That's how I understand it as of now.
Sure, it could be an act. She could have spent years practicing hand writing, creative writing and a lot of time reading Scripture before turning a hobby/diary into what I've been reading. A non-global warming scientist looks at all the data rather than cherry picking and that could be a possibility.
So...About the messages? "I don't know" is one personal truth, but another is the profound change in me since I started reading them.
That second truth is the one I'm rolling with, because I like where it's going and love how it's changed my peace and put my thoughts on Him and the Family. "Rapture" is the word that comes to mind based upon what I've read.
If that's enough information to be a true "By its fruits" test, then my head and heart answer your question: YES!!! Praise God Almighty, Yes!!! Thank YOU, LORD, for the rescue!
If you knew how out of character ^^^THAT^^^ is coming from me, I think you'd be impressed.
But you don't, and that's all I got.
(Sorry to be so long-winded. Didn't seem right somehow to answer with just yes or no.)
Who is the "Him" "His" and "Him" you reference?
I need to know before I can properly respond to the rest of your post.
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