Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
Typical non-Catholic, when facts with facts, dodge.
:Hahahahahaaaaaaa!
Can't even make a cogent post, yet claim to present "facts"! Catholics present their cult's OPINIONS, which are rarely baed in Scripture. They depend on "traditions of men", which any Christian knows is anathema to Christ's message.
Typical catholic cultist reply... try straw men and try to turn the conversation back to the cult's message.
Hebrews 3: 3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,” bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory. ...
Post 606 is beneath dignity.
I'm right on almost all things marriage....I have no idea as to what Jewish marriages require, Mary and Joseph were Jewish....Jesus, was, of course a Jew, as was Peter and the others....when Christ instituted His church, they, in effect became the first Christians, thus Catholics.When Christ was baptized, he didn't become more Jewish, He became a Catholic....all valid baptisms make you a Catholic.....maybe not a practicing one, but Catholic nevertheless.
I never said that only Catholic marriages count, all marriages count, legally....however not all count Sacramentaly. Even if the couple is married by a JofP their marriage is permanent and cannot be broken. People marry each other, the priest/minister/judge merely is an official witness. If any of these marriages end in divorce, a remarrying spouse then lives in a state of adultery.
Not at all. Likewise it a man had to have a vasectomy for medical reasons or was seriously injured in that area in war for example, their situations were not caused by an intentional act to prevent procreation....they were open to it, just not capable of it...
“I have no idea as to what Jewish marriages require”
If a person is Christian, Terycarl, they must know what a Jewish marriage requires. I beg of you to take the time to learn as much about a Jewish marriage as you possibly can before you leave this life.
Best wishes.
Mary and Joseph weren't Catholic. Their marriage was a Jewish one subject to whatever conditions that synagogue required.
Why, seriously why is that a requirement. We could just as easily say that every person claiming to be Christian should learn all they can about Catholicism. Of course if they did these threads would be pretty dull because instead of the anti-Catholic lies, well.... you know.
“all valid baptisms make you a Catholic”
John the Baptist. Were the people he baptized Catholics? People were baptized before Christ was walking the earth in the flesh.
(I’m off here soon, but will be back ‘round this weekend. During the weekend, I can search out for you some great info on baptism and Jewish weddings if you’re interested.)
Are you serious?
I’m stunned.
I wish you the best.
“When Christ was baptized, he didn’t become more Jewish, He became a Catholic....all valid baptisms make you a Catholic.....maybe not a practicing one, but Catholic nevertheless.”
The horror...the horror. FReepers this thread has shown starkly that we are indeed up against “spiritual wickedness in high places”.
After reading the last few posts, I could cry. My jaw cannot drop any further.
Find a lost sibling is not uncommon at all.....think of the number of illigitimate births in this country.....do they often marry, of course not, but you were seeking possible reasons as to why a marriage could be annulled. sheesh
Not true, you probably missed catechism class the day that they covered that....it is indeed a valid marriage.
No they don't, they recognize virtually all marriages which are between consenting adults and done according to law. Annulment is simply church sanctioned divorce and all this nonsense about *valid* marriages are nothing more than an excuse to get out of a marriage one no longer wants to be in, all for a fee, of course.
You are completely wrong on this and you certainly didn't learn that in catechism class in which you could have paid more attention.
BINGO....you have been paying attention.
I should have been more specific by saying for the life of either party....'till death do us part...sorry, I knew that.
Good grief...
Isn't it neat when we get to make up our own biblical interpretations....makes life so much easier...
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