Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
Still breaking the rules here huh?
Mind reading and personal comment.
I understood perfectly the perversion of your question, and I see you like to repeat it over and over again.
Do you like that kind of tabloid trash running through your brain?
there is nothing depraved here.
Incest isn't depraved? Oh, ok to you maybe.
You seem to be wrong on all things marriage.
But then you state that all Christians must be Catholics.
Nice to know that you seem to think it is possible that Joseph and Mary didn’t have a “valid” marriage.
You have been saying only Catholic marriages count, Jesus wasn’t a Catholic although you once said he was the first Catholic.
Now he’s Jewish?????
Was that enough question marks to make my question reaaaallll important?????
“Beware of fallen angels. They lie with a brilliance you cannot match.”
Amen. But let’s get real honest here. Once you start communing with the spirit world, it’s very hard to return because your entire belief system is being undermined and corrupted through pride.
Paul spoke of those who were puffed up in their sensuous minds, going on in great detail about visions. I’ve encountered many, some very convincing. To be a drab person of faith, believing without seeing, always looks dull next to the soothsayer and their visions.
They pay a heavy price for opening that door, though!
If that is what the magicsteeringthem asserts then they are in error. A woman who has had a complete hysterectomy marries a man who knows she cannot bear children because of her medical condition, and your magicsteerignthem would tell them their marriage is not valid? Is that the reality? Or is it your take on what they would assert?
“entire belief system is being undermined and corrupted through pride.” Amen and amen! it is pride to which satan aims his pricks upon the soul of man and woman. That has been his target since the Garden. The brilliance with which he pricks at the pride is usually so well disguised that we believe something entirely different about or motives.
And that happens all the time, right?
It sounds an awful lot like the arguments for supporting abortion.
What if........(posit some rare to never occurring scenario to justify disobeying God.)
I think some people need to pay a little more attention to the news.
Woman tells magazine she's 'marrying' her father, moving to N.J.
Would this marriage be valid or not?
Supreme Court approves gay marriage nationwide Same sex marriage, valid or invalid?
Montana man applies for polygamous marriage license
Polyamorous marriage, valid or invalid?
Man’s opinion.
How can they?
Catholics claim Mary and Joseph never had sex, making their marriage an invalid one by Catholic standards, giving Joseph grounds for annulment.
"all the time" eh?
And of course, them getting married happens "all the time" as well, right?
I'd be curious how many marriages per year are granted an annulment on those grounds.
And if the man wanted to marry her anyway, because he loved her as opposed to seeing her as a baby factory, they are then living in sin, because it's not a valid marriage in the eyes of the church.
Based on GOD’S standards, the One who defined marriage, no, it is not marriage.
GOD prohibits incest and the other situations are sin.
However, that still does not invalidate my contention.
The Catholic church does not own the concept of marriage and nowhere in Scripture is it shown to have been given sole authority to determine what a *valid* marriage is.
The Catholic church sets itself up as the final authority on everything and by claiming that only Catholic marriages performed by a Catholic priests to practicing Catholics is valid, puts EVERYONE else married outside of it as living in sin.
A Hindu marriage between a man and woman is as much as marriage in the eyes of God as a Catholic one done the *right* way. The Catholic church blessing it is meaningless.
Annulment is simply church sanctioned divorce and all this nonsense about *valid* marriages are nothing more than an excuse to get out of a marriage one no longer wants to be in, all for a fee, of course.
Yeah still dodging, but I expected that.
If that helps you get through the dark scary night so be it, keep telling yourself that.
I really wish that non-Catholics actually read and understood the Bible they claim to love so much>
Abraham's brother Nahor married his niece Milcah, the daughter of his other brother Haran
In one of the tales of a wife confused for a sister, Abraham admitted that his wife Sarah is also his half-sister, on his father's side.[2] However, in the rabbinic literature, Sarah is considered Abraham's niece (the daughter of his brother, Haran
Abraham's son Isaac married Rebekah, his first cousin once removed, the granddaughter of his father's brother Nahor and niece Milcah
Isaac and Rebekah's firstborn son Esau married his cousin Mahalah, daughter of his father's brother Ishmael
While their second son Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel, daughters of his mother's brother Laban.
The biblical character Amram married his paternal aunt, Jochebed, the mother of Miriam, Aaron and Moses.
Yeah ignoring the Bible qualifies as a dodge.
Please cite the cite either the CCC or the Code of Canon Law that states the Catholic owns the concept of marriage and how the Catholic Church views marriages of non-Catholics. You will want to start with Section 1108. It is a simple request.
Many have mistaken satan as an Angel of God, But many more have refuted Angels sent by God by mistakenly thinking they were sent by satan. That's why distinguishing between spirits is critically important and is included in the scriptures as a spiritual gift:
1 Corinthians 12 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
I send a prayer to Our Father as I write this post that He fills your heart with Love. Do not hold onto fear, as you cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit when full of fear. It's that simple as the fear and Love cannot exist in the same space. The perfect Love of the Holy Spirit casts out fear. When filled with the Holy Spirit, you can walk through the "Valley of the Shadow of Death" and fear no evil for thy Lord is your shepherd.
I do not fear satan or his minions. To do so would lower me to his level and he would have power over me. Accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and allow the Holy Spirit to enter you. As also with the Holy Spirit come many gifts, the greatest of which is the experience of God's Love through His Son Jesus.
Many who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. Be on your guard and stand firm in the faith. Be also courageous and be strong. But always remember, DO EVERYTHING IN LOVE
The only exorcist Priest I have ever known of would never have made even one assertion of his power over spirits or even hinted that he was an instrument of God's choosing for the task. To someone with pride in self, who claimed to wrestle with evil spirits, I would humbly offer, "Examine yourself"
What was offered may appear as a loving prayer from you to God on my behalf, but it is dripping with the puffed up pride of self as evidenced by the specious assumptions made from an assumed loftier position of worthiness. That's not love, FRiend, it is pernicious pride masquerading as 'love for the lessers'. To such an one I would offer, "Examine yourself."
“Many who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.”
Would you mind elaborating on this part of your post, T&R?
Oh?
BAck to catechism classes for YOU!!
Romans 7:2
They were the FIRST Christians; therefore the FIRST Catholics!!
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